Glutenease

[Rachel--24]

This is what happens! This is what happens as a direct result of these companies irresponsible marketing!

This is not happening because of the company's "irresponsible" marketing. I would bet that this indiviadual has never even been to that website...nor have they ever picked up one of the bottles and tried these enzymes.

This post comes from a misinformed person who is giving advice about something that he doesnt have alot of knowledge about. It happens on this board ALL the time.

People post irresponsible information on this board constantly!

People post things that are not true....and they state them as fact....when they really have no idea and have never really looked into it.

This is the reality of posting/reading on message boards. In my opinion noone should EVER come to a message board...read something and take it as fact. People really need to do their own research before making decisions. This goes for everything.....not just topics about enzymes.

Is it really fair to blame Enzymedica for someones irresponsible post??

If someone comes here and posts that its OK to eat spelt bread...who are we going to blame? The misinformed poster!

This person is misinformed.....you dont know where this poster got his info. Maybe he read a page or two of this thread...or some other thread....and totally misinterpreted what was being stated. It happens all the time.....people read stuff and then they COMPLETELY miss the point.

My point is....you're blaming the company for someone's lack of knowledge on the product. When someone posts info. that is inaccurate....they should be corrected...for obvious reasons. However, I dont feel its Enzymedica's fault that someone posted false info. regarding their product.

Afterall...Enzymedica isn't saying that its OK for a Celiac to eat gluten with the enzyme. They are saying that its NOT ok.

[Rachel--24]

Janet, you've hit the nail on the head. This is the heart of the problem, and has been all along, I believe. The reason that the marketing is an issue, is because it is aimed at Celiacs (along with others,) and for a Celiac, this is dangerous! And Linda is not the only person right here on these boards I've heard say something similar very recently.

You are making an assumption when you say that GlutenEase is "aimed" at Celiac's. Personally, I do not agree with your assumption.

The marketing may be an issue for YOU...but for alot of people its not an issue at all. They understand what it means. I understand what it means and never ONCE did I think that this was something that a Celiac could take in place of the gluten-free diet.

I wouldnt have had to do a ton of research to understand that when they say that the enzymes arent a treatment for Celiac......it means that it doesnt replace the diet! I would have recognized that fact 3 years ago....before I even knew much about the disease.

Linda said that at some point she may try to eat a piece of bread with the enzymes....and she also said that she does NOT have Celiac Disease.

She said that she had very severe reactions to gluten in the past....and with the enzyme she did not have a reaction when she accidently had gluten in her meal. I think most "sane" people who have suffered from terrible long lasting symptoms arent going to jump right into eating a food that has caused them alot of pain previously.

I have suffered from ALOT of food intolerances. When I try something I'm *always* afraid of how I'll react. I've had severe reactions to bananas before. If I were to take a bite today and not feel anything....I'm certainly not going to go ahead and make myself a banana smoothie! There's no way...I would have to ease my way into it and overcome the fear. That is a totally NORMAL response. If something hurt you in the past....you tend to remain wary of it.

I'm an adult. I've had all of the testing. I was gluten free for 3 years. I know that I am not genetically susceptible to Celiac Disease. I know that the diet didnt resolve all of my health problems. I know that I do not have flattened villi. I have done plenty of research. I have discussed these things with my doctor. I chose to reintroduce gluten while taking enzymes. My condition has not worsened with gluten back in my diet.

I made an informed decision. Afterall....this is MY body...I'm responsible for maintaining my health.

It sounds like Linda has also made an informed decision.....it doesnt seem like she's doing anything on a "whim". She's saying that she FEELS BETTER.

The possibility of Celiac without DQ2 or DQ8 is rare.....its not common. If she DOES have Celiac....she's now saying that she FEELS BETTER than she was feeling when she was totally gluten-free WITHOUT the enzymes.

Isnt that what we all strive for....to FEEL BETTER?? I'm quite certain that if she were to reintroduce gluten and then start to develop problems...she would NOT continue to consume it. Most "sane" people (who are informed) would say "Ok...I need to be gluten-free because it makes me FEEL BAD when I eat it".

Its not up to me to decide who has Celiac and who doesnt. If someone is not aware that they have Celiac...would it be better for them to take the enzyme while eating gluten....or to just eat gluten without the enzyme?? I mean really, there are plenty of people out there right now who are undiagnosed and stuffing their faces with gluten as I'm typing this. They are causing harm to their body. Would it really be MORE harmful for them to take the enzymes??

Seems to me that it would be more dangerous for them to continue eating gluten with no enzymes whatsoever. Nobody knows if it lessens the reaction...or if it makes no difference whatsoever...but we DO know that enzymes improve digestion....and that can be very important...even if the autoimmune reaction is still occuring. Its not just a matter of digesting gluten...its a matter of improving digestion OVERALL.

[linda7276]

You are making an assumption when you say that GlutenEase is "aimed" at Celiac's. Personally, I do not agree with your assumption.

The marketing may be an issue for YOU...but for alot of people its not an issue at all. They understand what it means. I understand what it means and never ONCE did I think that this was something that a Celiac could take in place of the gluten-free diet.

I wouldnt have had to do a ton of research to understand that when they say that the enzymes arent a treatment for Celiac......it means that it doesnt replace the diet! I would have recognized that fact 3 years ago....before I even knew much about the disease.

Linda said that at some point she may try to eat a piece of bread with the enzymes....and she also said that she does NOT have Celiac Disease.

She said that she had very severe reactions to gluten in the past....and with the enzyme she did not have a reaction when she accidently had gluten in her meal. I think most "sane" people who have suffered from terrible long lasting symptoms arent going to jump right into eating a food that has caused them alot of pain previously.

I have suffered from ALOT of food intolerances. When I try something I'm *always* afraid of how I'll react. I've had severe reactions to bananas before. If I were to take a bite today and not feel anything....I'm certainly not going to go ahead and make myself a banana smoothie! There's no way...I would have to ease my way into it and overcome the fear. That is a totally NORMAL response. If something hurt you in the past....you tend to remain wary of it.

I'm an adult. I've had all of the testing. I was gluten free for 3 years. I know that I am not genetically susceptible to Celiac Disease. I know that the diet didnt resolve all of my health problems. I know that I do not have flattened villi. I have done plenty of research. I have discussed these things with my doctor. I chose to reintroduce gluten while taking enzymes. My condition has not worsened with gluten back in my diet.

I made an informed decision. Afterall....this is MY body...I'm responsible for maintaining my health.

It sounds like Linda has also made an informed decision.....it doesnt seem like she's doing anything on a "whim". She's saying that she FEELS BETTER.

The possibility of Celiac without DQ2 or DQ8 is rare.....its not common. If she DOES have Celiac....she's now saying that she FEELS BETTER than she was feeling when she was totally gluten-free WITHOUT the enzymes.

Isnt that what we all strive for....to FEEL BETTER?? I'm quite certain that if she were to reintroduce gluten and then start to develop problems...she would NOT continue to consume it. Most "sane" people (who are informed) would say "Ok...I need to be gluten-free because it makes me FEEL BAD when I eat it".

Its not up to me to decide who has Celiac and who doesnt. If someone is not aware that they have Celiac...would it be better for them to take the enzyme while eating gluten....or to just eat gluten without the enzyme?? I mean really, there are plenty of people out there right now who are undiagnosed and stuffing their faces with gluten as I'm typing this. They are causing harm to their body. Would it really be MORE harmful for them to take the enzymes??

Seems to me that it would be more dangerous for them to continue eating gluten with no enzymes whatsoever. Nobody knows if it lessens the reaction...or if it makes no difference whatsoever...but we DO know that enzymes improve digestion....and that can be very important...even if the autoimmune reaction is still occuring. Its not just a matter of digesting gluten...its a matter of improving digestion OVERALL.

Well said as always Rachel, I don't understand why the fear of enzymes. I AM feeling much better, and I am informed, most of my days are spent reading and researching. I believe that the enzymes and probiotics are correcting the damage to my bowel, as well as allowing me to absorb my nutrients which for most of my life, I wasn't doing. How can that be ANYTHING but GOOD?

And because I believe that the leaky gut was caused by long-standing and uncontrolled Candida, I also believe that one day I will be healed and might be able to eat gluten again. In the meantime, I will carry the Glutenease because I am terrified of CC and ever being as sick as I was. I am very grateful that there is a remedy, for me a NON-Celiac...and perhaps for other NON-Celiacs. My symptoms were neurological as well.

I don't want anyone to be sick and if there is something that might be of benefit to them, I am all for it. I'm a Registered Nurse, and in the business of helping people, not hurting them. I am taking digestive enzymes with all of my meals, which do not contain any gluten. I'm also taking probiotics to re-establish a good balance of good versus bad bacteria, without which my bowel won't heal, I got sick from the leaky gut, not the other way around.

And yes, we ALL need enzymes, unless we eat a completely raw diet all the time. That's a fact, there are plenty of resources on the web and many books, all one has to do is read, I never read one source, but several, and then and only then do I decide if that information works for me, not anyone else, that's all we can do.

Here are a couple of sites with a lot of information, there are many books available at Lame Advertisement

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

I know I said I wasn't going to comment on this again but I felt I had to comment to this post. Thanks Rachel, you were right on with what I was trying to say...

[Rachel--24]

And the average Celiac who sees that ad in the magazine is going to see "villi damage" and "villi flattening" and say Hey! That's what I have!

This is what that choice can cost:

Cancer

Infertility

Miscarriage

Osteoporosis

Behavioral Disorders

Malnutrition

The average Celiac who reads that ad would also see the statement that the enzymes are not effective as a treatment for Celiac Disease. They will say "Hey...thats what I have!!"...and they will know that this is NOT for them.

I would also like to point out that NON-Celiac's are susceptible to many of the same health risks as a result of poor digestion. Enzymes (such as GlutenEase) may actually PREVENT these things from occuring.

Poor digestion can lead to all kinds of health problems. Poor digestion is linked to leaky gut....and leaky gut is linked to all kinds of autoimmune conditions.

Some people who are NON-celiac will discover this product (as Linda has) and they will BENEFIT from it. By improving their digestion they may be reducing their risk for everything you listed...plus more.

This product will very likely HELP a great deal of people...as I'm sure it already has.

Yes...there may be a few misinformed Celiac's who use the product thinking that its a "cure".

Overall....I think its going to help more people than it will harm.

Also, if I had Celiac Disease and attempted to "treat" my autoimmune disease with a supplement that makes no such claim....ultimately I would have to take some responsibility for my OWN negligence.

[GFinDC]

Going off on a tangent here...

I saw this story not long ago about researchers identifying 22 more genes that are thought to be involved in Crohn's Disease. Previously the known number of Crohn's related genes was 11. The point being that we may not have all the answers yet about exactly what genes are involved in celiac disease. Sorry, a bit off topic, but I thought it related to an earlier post about not having celiac due to the gene markers not being there. I guess the reality is that it is possible that the doctors don't know everything about celiac and the genes that cause it yet. At least, that is my guess.

From Escience.com:

"New research has trebled the number of genetic regions known to be implicated in Crohn's disease, a form of inflammatory bowel disease, to over thirty.

....

Previous studies have already identified 11 genes and loci (regions of the genome typically including one or more genes) that increase susceptibility to the disease. Now an international collaboration of researchers has identified a further 21 new genes and loci."

Open Original Shared Link

[Rachel--24]

Going off on a tangent here...

I saw this story not long ago about researchers identifying 22 more genes that are thought to be involved in Crohn's Disease. Previously the known number of Crohn's related genes was 11. The point being that we may not have all the answers yet about exactly what genes are involved in celiac disease. Sorry, a bit off topic, but I thought it related to an earlier post about not having celiac due to the gene markers not being there. I guess the reality is that it is possible that the doctors don't know everything about celiac and the genes that cause it yet. At least, that is my guess.

For as long as I've been posting on this board its been acknowledged that there are some genes that are not yet identified. Both GI Dr.'s I saw acknowledged that there are "missing" genes...and that we dont know all genes involved at this time.

We know that there is a very small percentage of Celiac's who do not carry either DQ2 or DQ8. However....somewhere close to 98% of Celiac's do carry at least one of these genes. These are the *main* genes. There are not alot of people testing positive for Celiac and not carrying one of these genes.

So even if there are 100 other genes that are thought to be involved in Celiac....it isnt going to change the fact that the vast majority of people with the disease carry one (or both) of the main genes (DQ2 & DQ8).

[Ridgewalker]

I don't mind saying it again... I know that there are other types of gluten intolerances, other than Celiac. And I understand that it's possible that this enzyme might help those people's lives get a little easier. And I never said that it shouldn't be available to anyone who wants it.

But I'm deeply disturbed at the way Enzymedica markets GlutenEase. Considering the deadly consequences for a Celiac who consumes gluten, I do not think it is too much to ask for A- Enzymedica to bend over backwards, spelling it out all over every ad and bottle that it is not for Celiacs (see more below), and B- for those statements to actually hold weight in that the rest of the ad isn't full of misleading, inaccurate statements.

It's not that much to ask. Clear, accurate information, and appropriate warnings, instead of a standard CYA statement that any supplement shopper is going to ignore. It could save the health of a lot of people.

Here's an analogy. I don't happen to have a bottle of St. John's Wort, but I've picked it up before, and it also has a pretty standard statement- all the brands I've looked at. Something like, "This product is not to diagnose or treat depression." Yet everybody knows that the most common use for St. John's Wort is depression.

People are going to recognize a CYA statement when they see it. And it's there for one reason- to try and protect the company from getting sued. When Enzymedica turns right around and describes Celiac, what are people going to think- realistically?

I'll post the part that bothers me the most again, for any new readers. Again, this is straight from Enzymedica's own Open Original Shared Link

Gluten exhibits a unique amino acid sequence which creates inflammation and a flattening of the villi of our intestinal tract. The villi provide the intestine with the ability to absorb nutrients from the foods we eat, thus damaged villi can lead to responses such as malabsorption, nutrient deficiencies or other digestive disorders.

This is under the heading, "Cause of Gluten Intolerance." It doesn't explain any cause of gluten intolerance. It describes Celiac Disease. Does this make sense to anyone? Honestly? What exactly are they attempting to say here?

My assumption that they're aiming their product at Celiacs is based on their own "informational" page. It's not that big of a leap.

I will never understand the attitude of every man for himself. The fact that a person is ultimately responsible for his own health is no excuse for misleading and false advertising. It is absolutely no excuse for the irresponsible statements of Enzymedica. If they're helping you, that's wonderful, and I'm happy for you. I'm not a big meanie who wants everyone to be sick and miserable. But they're hurting other people.

[Unclezack]

I have read this thread from beginning to end three times over the last two weeks. It takes a long time to read the whole thread, but I think it is worth taking the time and making decisions based on personal experiences and scientific evidence.

I can see that for someone who has recently gone on a gluten free diet that it would be very confusing going back and forth between the pros and cons of using enzymes. I know that when I went gluten free over five years ago that I felt like that I could never live a gluten free life. After eating gluten for 52 years, it was a real shocker that I couldn't go through the drive in window and grab a hamburger and fries and eat it on the run and go on with my busy day. I drove down fast food row and looked at each restaurant I had eaten at many times and thought about what was on the menu. I drove past them all, knowing that there wasn't anywhere I could eat safely. I was totally scared! What COULD I eat? At the time, because of malabsorption, my blood sugar would drop if I didn't eat within a certain time frame. I was getting to that point, and beginning to feel weak and panicky. I drove to a grocery store. Pretty much the same story as the fast food restaurants. If I was going to eat, I was going to buy some raw unprocessed food and go home and cook it. I did. That was the beginning.

I became paranoid about gluten. This seems silly now, but I wouldn't even walk through the bakery section of a grocery store. I wasn't sure if possibly some gluten could be present in the vapors that were carrying the aroma of the freshly baked goods in the air. I do now walk through the bakery now to get to the gluten free foods section.

I looked on the internet for a magic pill that would allow me to eat gluten and be normal. There was research going on and some very positive reports of a pill that was being tested at the time. I was very hopeful that it would work and soon be available.

It didn't take long before I felt quite a bit better. In fact, I felt so much better that I decided, regardless of what medication came out in the future, I would never intentionally eat gluten again, and I haven't. I haven't even been tempted to.

As time went on, my wife came to the realization that GI/celiac disease was not a temporary illness. She saw how much better I felt and how my attitude and energy level had improved. She began to make larger portions of food in the evening so I would have a lunch I could heat up instead of cooking a whole meal from scratch every day. Sometimes, I felt that my disease was harder on her than it was on me. To protect myself, at times that she ate glutenous foods, I had to refuse to kiss her before she cleaned her mouth. I was nice about it, but she told me that it made her feel like she had a disease. I tried to assure her otherwise, and she eventually got used to it.

The longer I was gluten free, the more sensitive I became to cross contamination. Packaged or canned foods that had never bothered me in the past were giving me reactions. When this happened, I got sicker than ever. Usually three days of digestive sickness and a few more days of just feeling exhausted. I did a lot of internet research, emailing and phone calls to manufacturers to find safe products.

Every time I tried eating dinner in a restaurant, I got sick, even though I only ate a steak with plain salt, a baked potato and salad with no croutons. After a few tries, I refused to eat anywhere but home.

Even though I was getting better every day, I still felt like my digestion was sluggish, and most certified non gluten grains, seeds, nuts, fungus and nightshades made me feel symptoms similar to gluten. I avoided them as much as possible, but it's hard (boring) to live on rice, a few meats and vegetables. This is how I got started on enzymes. I talked to a naturopath. He showed me some enzymes. They weren't Glutenease, but were made by Enzymedica. He told me they would help my digestion and "POSSIBLY" offer some protection if I was gluten challenged from eating in a restaurant. I eventually ended up taking half doses of two enzyme blends with each meal. One was to aid digestion and the other one was aimed at stopping acid reflux, even though it had some digestive enzymes in it as well. I was very leery about an enzyme helping with cross contamination issues. I was still avoiding restaurant meals.

The enzymes did help my digestion and helped with the terrible acid reflux as well. The lack of gluten in my diet and the enzymes had me feeling better. After having a stomach ache and bowel problems most of my life, it was a nice feeling. As my gut healed, the spacey, light headedness, aches and pains and flu like feelings had gone away as well.

Eventually, knowing it was harder on my wife to never go out to dinner than it was on me, since she has no problem eating gluten, one night, I said, "Let's go out to dinner." She asked me if I was sure, and I said I was willing to try it. I had a long talk with the waitress about what I could and couldn't eat, and doubled up on my enzymes. Did the enzymes offer me 100% protection? Probably not, but I didn't get sick for three days. I didn't get sick at all, but I did get a little bit of gas from eating non gas forming foods. Gas to me is the first sign of gluten reaction. In a restaurant or a home where others eat gluten, the risk of getting cross contamination is pretty high. I admit that enzymes aren't a miracle cure, but offer enough protection (for me anyway) that if there was any reaction, it was very slight. Quoting Rachel here, "Less reaction=less damage." I have to agree with that. Even after all of these years, if I get a full blown reaction from gluten, which is extremely rare, I get very sick and have no doubt that my intestines were damaged by the auto immune response.

I am doing what I can to protect myself, which is a lot more than people I personally know are doing. As I talk to them, I find that they are eating processed foods I would never think of eating due to the reactions I have had. Some of them cheat. I tell them of my research and findings. They have done no research, and are getting glutened often. When I ask what they ate, often it is something I know from experience or research is known to contain gluten. McDonalds french fries for example. I know a man who has been "supposedly" gluten free for 14 years, but eats french fries from McDonalds. McDonalds has a website that lists every ingredient in every product they sell. There is a beef flavoring on their fries that contains wheat. He has recently quit eating them, but for years he would tell me how he only ate french fries and salad at McDonalds and got sick.

I believe these forums are good for the people who are concerned about their health. Yes, we may agree to disagree. Some of the arguments get pretty hot at times. We say the same things over and over again and continue to argue about the same topic, but it seems that with each argument, we all may be learning something new. Some of us remain curious and new arguments entice us to do more research.

I want to protect my health, but I can not live in a bubble. I am going to go enjoy a meal in a restaurant from time to time. I try to frequent restaurants where I have already interrogated the employees about the food ingredients and methods of preparation. Most menus have two or three items I can eat. It's pretty much the same in all restaurants, so eating out isn't as enjoyable as it could be, but we all need a break from routine sometimes, and I think my wife deserves a break from cooking. I can't deny her that pleasure.

I don't normally take Glutenease, because I like the combination of the two enzyme formulations I use better. I have a bottle of Glutenease and it saved me from a major accidental glutening once. I ate enough gluten pasta that was mixed in with rice pilaf to have been sick for a week. I took four Glutenease and had only minor symptoms. One reason I don't take Glutenease all of the time is that it makes my food digest so quickly that I wake up early in the morning starving. I do carry some with me, just in case I get fooled again by hidden gluten and find out before a reaction begins. Once the reaction starts, the damage has been done and taking any enzyme isn't going to do much good, if any.

One of the arguements about Glutenease that keeps going around is that they state, "Glutenease is not formulated to prevent celiac symptoms." I agree. It doesn't say celiacs can't take Glutenease and benefit from it. Whether a person who has celiac disease is symptomatic or asymptomatic, they already have the symptoms and abstaining from gluten and a long healing process is the only thing that is going to make the symptoms to go away. My interpretation of this statement doesn't tell me that someone who has celiac disease can't use Glutenease or another enzyme product to aid digestion and lessen the symptoms and damage that accidental cross contamination can cause. The symptoms of an accidental glutening is only adding to the symptoms of the celiac disease that are already present. So, even with a celiac, better digestion and protection from ACCIDENTAL gluten consumption should not cause them any problems.

[Rachel--24]

I'm not a big meanie who wants everyone to be sick and miserable. But they're hurting other people.

In my 3 years posting here (as well as other boards) I have yet to see someone post that they were harmed by GlutenEase. Who has been hurt? Do you personally know someone who has misinterpreted Enzymedica's info. and been harmed as a result? If not....then you are making an assumption.

[Lisa]

I think that both sides of the argument/debate have been equally represented.

[Ridgewalker]

In my 3 years posting here (as well as other boards) I have yet to see someone post that they were harmed by GlutenEase. Who has been hurt? Do you personally know someone who has misinterpreted Enzymedica's info. and been harmed as a result? If not....then you are making an assumption.

No. I don't have to know someone personally who has gone through it, to make the logical deduction that it happens. When something is misleading, it's a logical conclusion that people will be misled by it.

Did you know that GlutenEase somehow ended up in goodie bags at an NFCA event last year? Big snafu, caused quite a bit of embarrassment, and a bit of work to let everyone know that they shouldn't use it. I wonder how that happened. I'd say either Enzymedica offered it to the organization (companies love to have their products in goodie bags- it's advertising,) and it slipped through, or else the person in charge was misled by Enzymedica's claims, and thought it would be a great thing to have in the goodie bags. Not good, either way. (i.e. Whether Enzymedica came to NFCA, or they came to Enzymedica-- either way isn't good.)

Did you know that as recently as this past spring, there was NO mention of GlutenEase not being for Celiacs in Enzymedica literature? It was only months ago that they added that one little CYA line. That line is not nearly good enough, especially when taken together with the rest of what's on their website-- for all the reasons I pointed out last night.

In case you're wondering, I have emailed Enzymedica about all of this. I'll let you know when/if I hear back from them.

[ShayFL]

Well it would be difficult to know who has gotten "hurt" by using Glutanease if they are Celiac because the "hurt" could manifest as cancer years later.

[happygirl]

Beating a dead horse?

[Rachel--24]

Well it would be difficult to know who has gotten "hurt" by using Glutanease if they are Celiac because the "hurt" could manifest as cancer years later.

Since GlutenEase is not a treatment for Celiac...I imagine that the "misled" Celiac would still be sick if they continued to eat gluten. If they choose to ignore their symptoms and continue to poison themselves with gluten...then yes....they may end up with cancer.

Same thing goes for the Celiac who chooses to cheat once a month.

Same thing goes for the Celiac who doesnt go gluten-free at all (because its too difficult for them).

Same thing goes for someone who heard that its OK to eat Spelt.

I can go on and on.

If a Celiac ignores their disease....they are at RISK for cancer.....enzymes or no enzymes.

My point is....if this were a HUGE problem where Celiac's all over the country are being "misled" by Enzymedica...where are they all?? Why arent we hearing about this constantly on this board...or *anywhere*??

Seems to me that if Celiac's were being "targeted".....there would be ALOT of people suffering as a result....afterall these enzymes are not hard to find.

[Lisa]

My point is....if this were a HUGE problem where Celiac's all over the country are being "misled" by Enzymedica...where are they all?? Why arent we hearing about this constantly on this board...or *anywhere*??

[ShayFL]

That is the thing with beating a dead horse...it never complains.....

[tom]

I've been staying out of this since having my say early in the thread, but just now was alerted to some info from a respected university, which goes along w/ the point others have been making - it's not whether or not glutenease can help w/ digestion, it's whether it can prevent damage.

Open Original Shared Link

Message from U of Chicago about Glutenease:

"It has absolutely NO merit. The only treatment for celiac disease remains a STRICT GLUTEN FREE DIET! We are working with the American Celiac Disease Alliance to fight false marketing claims like this one!

Just to clarify, while it is true that this intestinal epithelium-associated enzyme in vivo is capable of digesting to some extent gliadin peptides, and while the paper by Khosla in 2002 shows in the rat in vitro that DDPIV (together with other enzymes!) can effectively digest gliadin, there is absolutely NO PROOF whatsoever in any paper published in the medical literature in any journal in any year by any investigator working in any part of the world that shows any protective effect of DPP-IV in patients with celiac disease."

The bolding is mine.

[Rachel--24]

The "misled" are the undiagnosed, misinformed struggling for answers. They are the ones who may be susceptible to false hope in advertising at the expense of their health IN REGARD TO CELIAC DISEASE.

I'm sorry but in response to Sarah's posts....the "misled" would be those who HAVE Celiac ...who read Enzymedica's info....see the words "flattened villi" and assume that these enzymes will "cure" their Celiac.

If a person is undiagnosed why would they be "misled" by the wording on the website?

Sarah's concern was that a person HAVING Celiac would come across the word's "flattened villi"....and then say "HEY....I HAVE THAT..maybe I can take these enzymes and get away with eating gluten".

We were debating whether or not Enzymedica is aiming their marketing at the Celiac community...and if they are "misleading" Celiac's with the wording on their site.

If a person is undiagnosed...they typically arent aware of their condition....so I dont really see how this makes any sense...."They are the ones who may be susceptible to false hope in advertising at the expense of their health IN REGARD TO CELIAC DISEASE".

Why would an undiagnosed person who is looking for answers be susceptible to false hope in advertising...in regard to CELIAC DISEASE??

Undiagnosed = I do not have a diagnosis of Celiac Disease....or anything else. I dont know why I'm sick.

If one of THOSE people decides to try enzymes...how are they being "misled"?? Most likely they'd be trying enzymes because they feel they need to improve their digestion....and most likely it will help them.

Should we also be worrying about all of the healthy people who choose to take glutenease (or any type of enzyme) because they *might* actually be asymptomatic Celiac's who just havent experienced symptoms yet?? Should we just worry that *anyone* who picks up the product *might* be celiac?? OK....so if they are undiagnosed or asymptomatic...can someone explain how taking the enzymes is going to harm them if they're consuming gluten ANYWAYS.

[Unclezack]

I've been staying out of this since having my say early in the thread, but just now was alerted to some info from a respected university, which goes along w/ the point others have been making - it's not whether or not glutenease can help w/ digestion, it's whether it can prevent damage.

Open Original Shared Link

Message from U of Chicago about Glutenease:

"It has absolutely NO merit. The only treatment for celiac disease remains a STRICT GLUTEN FREE DIET! We are working with the American Celiac Disease Alliance to fight false marketing claims like this one!

Just to clarify, while it is true that this intestinal epithelium-associated enzyme in vivo is capable of digesting to some extent gliadin peptides, and while the paper by Khosla in 2002 shows in the rat in vitro that DDPIV (together with other enzymes!) can effectively digest gliadin, there is absolutely NO PROOF whatsoever in any paper published in the medical literature in any journal in any year by any investigator working in any part of the world that shows any protective effect of DPP-IV in patients with celiac disease."

The bolding is mine.

Tom, the second link sounds encouraging.

I wonder though? When U of Chicago says Glutenese has absolutely no merit , it makes me wonder HOW they tested it. Were they trying to neutralize the gluten in a whole slice of bread with a couple of capsules of Glutenease? I'm trying to see a ratio of gluten to enzyme. My interest in any product of this type isn't to be able to eat a slice of bread or a doughnut or whatever. I have no desire to eat ANY gluten, but through cross contamination, it may only take a few molecules of gluten to cause a reaction. Does anyone know for sure that DPP-IV enzymes don't have enough strength to break an extremely small amount that could be accidentally ingested due to cross contamination? Did they test the enzymes on that small of a ratio? This is probably not a question that can not be answered, but it makes me wonder if they tested it with cross contamination in mind or were they testing to see if it would allow a person to purpously eat gluten.

[Jestgar]

Back to this dead horse...

Open Original Shared Link found:

BBM fractions were prepared from rat small intestinal mucosa as described (1). With the use of standard assays, the specific activities of the known BBM peptidases were determined to be 127

[Rachel--24]

I've been staying out of this since having my say early in the thread, but just now was alerted to some info from a respected university, which goes along w/ the point others have been making - it's not whether or not glutenease can help w/ digestion, it's whether it can prevent damage.

Tom,

Nothing that you posted is "new" info....noone here has been saying that GlutenEase is a cure for Celiac Disease. Enzymedica does not claim that GlutenEase is a treatment for Celiac Disease. NOONE is making this claim.....and nobody here is saying that Celiac's can eat gluten and not suffer damage if they take GlutenEase.

How many times has that been reiterated in this thread already??

How many MORE times is it gonna have to be stated??

GLUTENEASE IS NOT A TREATMENT FOR CELIAC DISEASE.....and it doesnt *claim* to be.

[Jestgar]

BTW UncleZack

I thought your first post was fabulous

[Rachel--24]

My interpretation of these results would be something like, yes it helps, and it may digest the protein enough to make your tummy more comfortable, but there's a high probability that you are leaving in place peptides which will still stimulate your immune system. (Feels better, but you're still doing damage).

Yes...and this is why its not a treatment for Celiac Disease.

This is also why it can be VERY helpful to someone who is NOT having an autoimmune response (Celiac). If it digests the protein enough to allow it to pass through WITHOUT causing inflammation...this can prevent a person from developing leaky gut and the many consequences that come along with it.

So yes....its a good product....but not a treatment for Celiac Disease. The only treatment for Celiac is the gluten-free diet.

Damage can still occur in a Celiac...in a NON-Celiac damage can be PREVENTED. Its a no brainer.....people with Celiac should not purposely consume gluten...with or without enzymes.

[happygirl]

dead horse

[Jestgar]

Yes...and this is why its not a treatment for Celiac Disease.

This is also why it can be VERY helpful to someone who is NOT having an autoimmune response (Celiac). If it digests the protein enough to allow it to pass through WITHOUT causing inflammation...this can prevent a person from developing leaky gut and the many consequences that come along with it.

yeaaaa.....I guess I'm not totally convinced that 'gluten intolerance' isn't also an autoimmune response. We just don't have sufficient tests available to be able to say that one way or the other.