Can We Talk About Sex?

[kschauer]

How much sex do you think is normal?

I'm not asking how much sex you personally have, I'm just wondering about the different opinions on what you think is "normal"

Everyday? Once a week? Once a month?

I feel like it depends a lot on the couple - and where you are in the relationship. Newly-weds I would think more - the 5-10 year married couples, probably less.

Just wondering.

[Lisa]

Considering tonight is a full moon, I ain't touch'in that with a ten foot pole

[Lisa]

Karen made me say that.

[ShayFL]

I think "normal" is whatever works for the couple. My Hubby wants more, I want less....so we meet in the middle.

[jerseyangel]

Karen made me say that.

Vintage Karen!

[Judyin Philly]

Vintage Karen!

Indeed it is

she's too shy to type about it even

Karen and Lynne in one room ...............TOGETHER............OMG............IT'S A FULL MOON TOO

Keep the lock button on the computer.

sorry back to the real discussion.

Shay sums up most of us I guess...........after 47 years of marriage I ain't going there...........

[still tiredofdoctors]

Given that tonight I had a "celiac moment" with the neurological stuff, no one would even howl at the moon with me. So, no "antics" to report . . .

First: Normal is just a setting on the washing machine.

Next: I think that all relationships have an "ebb and flow" with regard to frequency. I think a lot of external factors apply in addition to the what is happening within the relationship.

BET YOU GUYS THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO REALLY GO TO TOWN WITH THIS ONE!!

That's Karen's job. I have just one word: Altoids. 'Nuff said.

[Kaycee]

Good to see you back Lynne.

Are altoids gluten free?

[still tiredofdoctors]

Thanks for the welcome!

To answer your question: Yes, all but the Chocolate Covered ones, I believe. For a definitive anwer, ask Karen !!

[kschauer]

I haven't been married for very long, so we haven't found that happy medium.

Just was hoping to get some info from real people.

So

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Altoids are gluten free, eh? Good to know

[still tiredofdoctors]

Give yourself time . . . you'll find the happy medium.

Again, Karen is the Altoids expert, NOT me. Just clarifying, folks -- don't want to cause any trouble this early BACK in the game!!

[Judyin Philly]

Just was hoping to get some info from real people.

So

Give yourself time . . . you'll find the happy medium.

Kschauer.

We are taking your question seriously........really

It's the happy medium that is such individual thing.......but I'm sure you knew that already.

Anewly wed and a couple like me married 47 years....... I guess you just have to keep the communication open. All these things all so well known but they are the Key i think.

Nothing new to share and I'm sorry i can't be of more help to you kido

congrats on the marriage.

Judy

[kschauer]

I know.

It is a very individual thing. I'm not sure why I wanted a basis for comparison.

[ShayFL]

So many factors involved. I can say that I certainly wanted it more when I was 20 compared to now (40). Stress can cause lower desire for either partner. And it isnt always a man that wants it more often. Sex should be something you enjoy and look forward to. It should not be a chore or an "obligation".

However, I do know that sometimes one partner will have a very overactive sex drive and expect their mate to have sex with them everyday and sometimes multiple times a day. This can be damaging to the person who does not want it that often and feels they are obligated to satisfy their partner's every need. One can begin to feel like a piece of meat rather than a "love partner". Counseling would be advised in this situation to work out a healthy attitude and frequency that can benefit both people equally. I know of cases where threats (infidelity) were used by the demanding partner to get more sex. This is VERY unhealthy.

For many women, the desire is no where near their male partners. This is "normal" and "natural" from what I have studied (not to mention my own experience). Most women, work full time, take care of the house, the kids, the groceries, the cooking, the pets, etc. Couple this with PMS and fatigue and the man wonders why she doesnt want to get busy 3 times a day........

Sometimes a woman has to put her foot down and say this is what I need to feel in the mood more. My DH is actually very good about it and understand when I feel sick it isnt going to happen. And he has been willing to help out. In my case, I told Hubby that if he would take over taking care of the dogs, drive my daughter to school in the mornings and clean up after dinner, we might be on to something. I also told him that after a long day, a foot massage could go a long way.....Now I am not saying he did a complete turn around and became perfect hubby. But he does do A LOT more around the house and will even cook if I ask him to. He offers a foot massage usually once a week and on weekends will take my DD to the bookstore for a few hours so I can relax.

It has helped both of us find that happy medium.

[still tiredofdoctors]

"For many women, the desire is no where near their male partners. This is "normal" and "natural" from what I have studied"

I guess my question is to what extent have you studied Human Sexuality? I have a dual major with the second being Psychology with emphasis on Human Sexuality. My studies indicated that the majority of men reach their sexual peak at around age 18. At this time, their sexual interest is by far greater than their female counterpart's.

Women, on the other hand, typically reach their sexual peak at around age 30-32. This age difference appears to be very unbalanced with regard to peak sexuality. It does lend toward a significant desire balance as a man's sexual peak begans to decline, and a woman's begins to increase. This, barring external influences and relationship stressors, lends toward achieving the "happy medium" of which we have been speaking.

Additionally, many women, as they complete menopause or undergo hysterectomy have yet another rise in sexual interest due to decreasing concerns with regard to possible pregnancy. This phenomenon can also occur aftter a male spouse undergoes a vasectomy and has been given the "all clear" with regard to sperm count.

I agree with ShayFL's advice with regard to sex therapy. There are many excellent family therapists who specialize in sex therapy. Many work closely with physicians (historically endocrinologists) to determine whether either spouse has specific abnormalities with regard to hormone levels. Should issues with regard to sexual desire "incompatibility" (not SEXUAL incompatibility, but DESIRE incompatibility -- big difference) continue to the extent that either partner considers this to be a problem, licensed family counselors specializing in sex therapy are of immense help.

[ShayFL]

Women, on the other hand, typically reach their sexual peak at around age 30-32. Additionally, many women, as they complete menopause or undergo hysterectomy have yet another rise in sexual interest due to decreasing concerns with regard to possible pregnancy. This phenomenon can also occur aftter a male spouse undergoes a vasectomy and has been given the "all clear" with regard to sperm count.

This sounds great in a textbook, but from my own experience and the testimonies of "real women" that I have counseled (plus friends and family), this just doesnt hold water.

No I am not as book learned as you on Sexuality. I have street smarts. I come from a large family of women and I counseled hundreds of women during my years of nutritional consulting. Trust me, we didnt just talk about food.

In my own family:

Me - my highest sex drive was from my early 20's till I had my daughter at 26. And it was crazy ravenous. Then it went bye bye for years while my daughter was young. It finally returned, but I never got that "peak" that everyone talks about in the early to mid 30's. It just didnt happen that way for me. Even my DH vasectomy didnt make me want it more. Made no difference. My 20's were my peak.

My Sister had a hysterectomy at 28. She will tell you she has always had an average sex drive up till about 5 years ago. She said something kicked in at around 39 and now at 44 she cannot get enough of it. She is in another world from me. I just dont relate.

My Mom had a hysterectomy at 26. She says she actually had a sex drive until then. Having her female parts removed changed her. She lost ALL interest in sex and never got it back. Never. My poor Father.......

Many of the women I counseled had had hysterectomies. Most came to me hoping to lose weight. That surgery often coincides with women gaining weight among other things. A lot of them talked about "never being the same" since the operation. I have yet to meet that "mythical" woman that got a boost in sex drive and had a grand ol time from that surgery. Great sex usually involves all of your organs involved in sexual reproduction. The uterus is actually a large part of orgasm. It contracts (when done correctly). It is the best part of the experience for me. I CANNOT imagine having my uterus removed. How horrible. Not to mention having the ovaries removed reduces sex hormones. A lot of women gain weight, lose hair where they want it and grow hair where they dont. How sexy does a women feel then?

Personally ask 1000 30-32 year old typical women (job, children and home to care for) if their sex drive is higher now or when they were younger. You might be surprised.

Women in their 50's often enjoy sex more not because of a hysterectomy but because the kids are grown, the dog eat dog career is a thing of the past and they have more free time. And if it is more enjoyable....you want it more.

[ShayFL]

A quick sniff around Google and it doesnt take long to see what a hysterectomy can do. Reading these comments made me tear up......None of these women are having/wanting more sex:

Open Original Shared Link

I love when someone peaks my interest and I go digging. I love to learn.

Found this:

Dr. Sandor Gardos, a doctor in sexual education. According to Dr. Gardos, the notion that women hit their sexual peak at 30 is very misleading. You will find many websites and articles on the very subject talking about how women get their groove on and peak at 30, or 35 while others say 40. But if you are talking about a hormone flux, this is simply not true. Men and women develop the same hormones at the same time: puberty. The only reason why women seem so much more interested at a later age is because we were taught NOT to be interested in sex when we were kids. If you experimented with sex like the boys did, you would be labeled the town Jezebel. Only when women mature are they able to feel more comfortable talking about and practicing sex. They finally open up and begin to feel normal about desiring sex.

Then it becomes a whole new world for women. The reason why people argue about the age of the sexual peak in women is because it varies for each women. It might take some women, for example, longer to learn how to orgasm. But when each woman finally feels comfortable with her body and the virtues of sex, it just might be like hitting puberty for her, especially if she had always lived a reserved or conservative life. This can be a great time in a woman's life; a true sexual awakening. And if you measure a sexual peak by interest level, then you can say that she has hit her prime. On the other hand, there are some women who go wild and crazy in their twenties and never give a thought to those societal messages, i.e. "Good Girls Don't". All things considered, these girls may not experience this sudden surge of sexual prowess at the 35 year mark. They have already experienced it all.

[still tiredofdoctors]

Sheesh . . . I was only asking where you studied.

What type of counseling do you perform?

[ShayFL]

I tend to go a bit wild sometimes ....I love to research things. If I dont know much about something and someone points that out...I'll go looking.

I have a Phd from Clayton College of Natural Health in Holistic Nutrition. I was in practice for about 5 years and then changed course so I could live my all time dream of being a full-time artist. I am a painter. I have now made a living selling my art for a little over 5 years now and find I am ready to swing back. And I think I will be able to do both now.

[kschauer]

Thanks ya'll for the info. I've tried to do my own internet research and everything points to one thing - STRESS

I'm super stressed and anxious and nervous and unhappy and my life is just screwed up right now. DH is feeling the same way apparently in regards to stress. Our situation (although through other's eyes is fine) is really freaking hard.

I honestly didn't mean for this topic to be so personal but basically DH's drive is probably strong and "normal" and mine is non-existent and has been for a couple of years. Desire is not there and I certainly cannot remember an orgasm.

Anyway, I know this is probably not the place for this discussion, but I'm glad you guys are willing to give me some info. I'm doing what I can about my stress levels.

[ShayFL]

If your DH is the lesser of the stressed, perhaps he can help you out a bit.....the foot massage thing can do wonders.

One thing DH and I have done is to have "date day". Now our schedules are flexible (I work from home) and he is a college Prof. and can move his time around. So once a week we have "date day". It starts the minute we drop our daughter off and ends when we pick her up at 3:15. During this time we always try to "have some fun" if you will. It is nice to have one special day that you can make the time for it, so that if the rest of the week is stressed, you have something to look forward to.

It could even be on a weekend day. And if you have kids, it could be 1/2 day with them at a sitter, grandma's or if you can move your schedule around.

Dates are very important no matter how long you have been married.

[kschauer]

If your DH is the lesser of the stressed, perhaps he can help you out a bit.....the foot massage thing can do wonders.

One thing DH and I have done is to have "date day". Now our schedules are flexible (I work from home) and he is a college Prof. and can move his time around. So once a week we have "date day". It starts the minute we drop our daughter off and ends when we pick her up at 3:15. During this time we always try to "have some fun" if you will. It is nice to have one special day that you can make the time for it, so that if the rest of the week is stressed, you have something to look forward to.

It could even be on a weekend day. And if you have kids, it could be 1/2 day with them at a sitter, grandma's or if you can move your schedule around.

Dates are very important no matter how long you have been married.

One of my good friends has a date night with her husband once a week. They are probably THE happiness couple I've ever met (for many reasons, date night just being a small part I'm sure).

I don't want to sound like I am making excuses but at the moment we work six days a week. We get home at 7 pm and go to bed at 8:30 (I am currently up past my bed time). I get up at 5 am to exercise to try to combat the aforementioned stress. Then it's off to work for 10 hours. We typically do have Sunday off work but it's spent grocery shopping. It is so hard to find time to re-connect so to speak. There are so many things going on in our lives and it all adds up to two very unhappy people.

Have any of you ever read "The Five Languages of Love" - in a nutshell it says people feel love the best in certain ways. DH feels love most certainly by physical touch and I feel love by DH spending quality time with me. I have zero zilch nada interest in physical touch (I do it out of obligation, see post above) and we've got NO time for quality time. Our needs aren't being met and I'm just at the end of my rope it seems. I'm a millisecond from tears at any moment and I've been this way for months.

Wow I sound like a huge whiner. I'm not trying to be, but it feels better to get this off my chest.

[ShayFL]

Sometimes you REALLY have to reevaluate your lives and make changes if you want your relationship to last. You have to sit down together and make a list of what is most important in your life. IF it goes something like this:

1. Our marriage

2. Our family & Friends

3. Our jobs

4. Etc.

This is how it should be. But if you currently have that order reversed, now is the time to work on it before it is too late.

In my case, I went through a very rough few years. I started to sell my artwork online beginning with eBay. Well it was cut throat and with eBay fees very difficult to make a good profit. So at one point I was painting 3 or 4 paintings a day and churning them out like a factory worker. My husband would come home and I would be painting with tears of exhaustion running down my face. But I needed (or thought I needed) to make a lot of money and this was how I could do it. Killing myself. There wasnt much sex goin on in those days believe me!!

This is when me and DH sat down and talked about things. Sure like anyone else we had expenses and bills to pay. But we found ways to make it less stressful for both of us. DH found a few online course he could teach to bring in more income. I cut back on the amount of painting and doubled my prices. And we invented "date day".

There is hope. Sit down and talk with DH. Find a solution now....dont wait till it is too late.

[Judyin Philly]

Wow I sound like a huge whiner. I'm not trying to be, but it feels better to get this off my chest.

Please don't feel bad about sharing on here and yes they are personal issues.............but...........if it's any comfort.................there have been so many posts on this very topic on this forum ever since I joined over 3+ years ago. Please feel free to share and maybe some of the suggestions will be just what you need.

hang in there. We do care about how your doing.

Judy

[Sweetfudge]

One of my good friends has a date night with her husband once a week. They are probably THE happiness couple I've ever met (for many reasons, date night just being a small part I'm sure).

I don't want to sound like I am making excuses but at the moment we work six days a week. We get home at 7 pm and go to bed at 8:30 (I am currently up past my bed time). I get up at 5 am to exercise to try to combat the aforementioned stress. Then it's off to work for 10 hours. We typically do have Sunday off work but it's spent grocery shopping. It is so hard to find time to re-connect so to speak. There are so many things going on in our lives and it all adds up to two very unhappy people.

Have any of you ever read "The Five Languages of Love" - in a nutshell it says people feel love the best in certain ways. DH feels love most certainly by physical touch and I feel love by DH spending quality time with me. I have zero zilch nada interest in physical touch (I do it out of obligation, see post above) and we've got NO time for quality time. Our needs aren't being met and I'm just at the end of my rope it seems. I'm a millisecond from tears at any moment and I've been this way for months.

Wow I sound like a huge whiner. I'm not trying to be, but it feels better to get this off my chest.

I can attest that it does help to get this off your chest. And I definitely agree with everyone who has said that you have to reevaluate your priorities. Yes, careers are important, paying the bills is important, but do you want to be doing it together or alone? I've read LOTS of self-help and marriage help books, and one correlation I've noticed is that men and women have different needs. You will not happily be able to meet his needs unless he is meeting yours, and vice versa. This is where sitting down and talking will help. My DH and I had to do this, and realize how we can help each other best, which in turn, will help our needs to be fulfilled. It's about a lot more than sex. Another great read on the subject is "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard Harley Jr. It helps to understand this concept.

And having a date night is SO important! Even if it's eating take-out together while watching your favorite TV show Or in my case, it's him eating take-out, and me eating my own "safe" food

I honestly didn't mean for this topic to be so personal but basically DH's drive is probably strong and "normal" and mine is non-existent and has been for a couple of years. Desire is not there and I certainly cannot remember an orgasm.

This sounds quite familiar...So, here's my story in a nutshell. DH and I met in college, became sexually active (he was my first and only)...which by the way, was amazing and so much fun. Then a few months later, we got married...and it all kinda fell apart. Dealing with growing up, depression, celiac disease, financial and job stress, family crises...you know how it goes.

Anyway, his sex drive has been pretty steady the whole time, but for awhile there I wanted nothing to do with it. Not to mention this huge complex hanging over my head that I think was caused by my religious upbringing (and a lot of closet masturbating). So, I could orgasm great on my own, but always felt guilty over it, and freaked out anytime we got close to it together....

We've had a lot of tears and drama over sex...not to mention sleepless nights. We've both read so many books! I've been to doctors and therapists to try and "fix me". I got off birth control and antidepressants. I've lost weight. He's gained weight (by building muscle). I've gotten on thyroid medication. I feel like it's been an ongoing struggle. Seriously, we have almost ended our marriage over this several times.

We just celebrated our 5 year anniversary a couple weeks ago, and I feel like I've finally come to the point where I understand our "happy medium". I don't know if my sex drive has changed, as in, horomonally. But my desire for him has increased. I don't think we're to the point where he would feel like things were "perfect", but we're getting there, and we're in a much better place than we once were. It's taken a lot of work. But then, marriage is a lot of work!

Here are some things I've done that I feel have helped:

~ Realizing that my marriage was my #1 priority. No matter what else I did in my life, I wanted it to be with this man. Here's a quote I love from the movie Shall We Dance - "Your life will not go unnoticed because I will notice it. Your life will not go un-witnessed because I will be your witness." That's what a marriage is. It's being the one person in his life who cares about him unconditionally, and who wants to share his joys and sorrows. It's listening to his report of a hard day at work. It's making yourself care about the score of the game he's so excited about. You have to accept that, and want to be that for him, if you want your marriage to thrive.

~ I had to accept that my sex drive is different than his. There's nothing "wrong" with me for being less sexual than him. I liked what someone else said earlier about "normal" being a setting on the washer. You have to come to a compromise with him about his desired frequency and yours. It's just as hard for him to stop wanting sex as it is for you to want it more than you do. Both of you have to realize this, and find a way to work around it.

~ Being willing to get out of my comfort zone sexually. One of the things I think that was keeping me from being interested in sex, was that I thought it was boring. Not saying you have to do anything crazy, but mix it up a little. Sometimes even throwing on something sexy makes YOU feel more sexy. A huge hurdle for me was realizing that one of the reasons sex wasn't fun for me, was it wasn't doing a whole lot to satisfy me. So we invested in a vibrator. Don't know if that's something you're comfortable with, but it's something that's helped me a lot. It also helped me get over the guilt I used to feel when I would masturbate alone.

~ Don't do it just because he's bugging you about it. You don't enjoy it, and he doesn't enjoy it as much as you think. It just creates a lot of negative energy between you two. At least, that's the case with me and my DH. One compromise we've come to is that he will ask me if I am in the mood. He tries to keep in mind that my sex drive is different than his. I try to keep in mind that this is a hard thing for him to approach me with, that he feels very hurt when I reject him. If I'm not in the mood, I will often offer an alternative. We call it a"sexy massage". Basically, I give him a hand job, with no pressure for it to go anywhere else. We will fool around, make out, maybe I'll do a little strip tease, and I whip out the lotion. It really does take a lot of the anxiety away. And sometimes, trying to pleasure him leads to wanting to be pleasured myself.

~ I try not to get annoyed when he "pesters" me for sex. I try and understand why he does it. He loves me, and he is very attracted to me. He thinks I'm beautiful. He wants to be with me. He's thinking about me...not anyone else. He sees beyond my imperfections, my extra curves, my split ends, my bad habits. I try and interpret what he means by what he is doing, and try and use it to view myself in a positive light. But then, I do have a lot of self image issues, and have a hard time feeling sexy when all I see is the negative. This may not be an issue for you.

Our sex frequency probably goes like this: sex every 7-10 days, with 1-2 days in the middle where we do something sexual, but not necessarily have sex. I find that when we stick to this schedule (without making it feel like a schedule!!!) we're both a lot happier. I've also found that I'm more open to the idea of sex on the weekends. Thankfully for me, I usually have a 3 day weekend

I'm sorry...I know I wrote a lot! I hope something in here helps!

One more quote - I know it's in my sig, but I live by it! "The grass is always greener where you water it!"

Good luck to you. If you ever need someone to talk to, please, send me a PM