Lumbar Facet Arthritis

[num1habsfan]

I need some help in understanding just what can cause Lumbar Facet Arthritis. I've been diagnosed for about a month now and Ive been extra paranoid because I'm afraid of doing something to my back that can make it worse.

Do any of you guys have this type of arthritis as well? Is it RA or OA? All that my x-rays said was there's erosion of my lumbar disks...

I haven't had any further tests done because I'm not sure how to diagnose specifically which kind of arthritis causes it?? It would be nice because then I could be even more careful.

Better yet would be if anyone can give me suggestions of treatment for when the arthritis flares up.

I guess the only benefit of it was that I now finally have the proof to people that I do in fact have arthritis, even though I am young.

[fedora]

hi,

have you had blood work for RA or anything. What tests have you had done? You mentioned Xrays

I have facet joint problems too. My dr has put me on a regimine of yoga, chiropractor, and physical therapy. He wanted me to take anti infamatories but I don't.

I having been dealing with this for awhile. The thing that is helping me the most is physical therapy. I HIGHLY recommend it.

I too am young. I am 33 and my pain started at 20. I am in some amount of pain constantly. My dr did not want to do a bunch of Xrays yet without me trying my rehab program because my mother had premenopausel breast cancer and DR did not want to expose me to that much radiation. I appreciate that and honestly the physical therapy is helping a lot.

I definately would like to chat about this more...

[num1habsfan]

I haven't had bloodwork done to test for RA yet. I tried asking my one family doctor about it but he didn't understand what I was asking, really. If I ever see one of the other 2 I will get them to maybe send me for that bloodwork.

I've always been having joint pains since getting Celiac (which was almost 6 years ago now) and I had basically assumed arthritis because of how I'm affected by changes of weather.

After a bit of an accident 4 years ago, I've been getting back spasms which have been happening more and more frequently and at more severe levels of pain. (So i guess I would have been 20 at that time). Basically when it catches me, I can't sit, lie down, or walk.

It was actually my asthma specialist (go figure!) that give me the form to for x-rays. He told me next time i have back pain, go get them done. So I did. And that's how i got these results.

I did get a precription for Tylenol 3, to take as needed, but Tylenol 3's are so rough on the stomach :/.

[mushroom]

I googled facet arthritis and it is a form of osteoarthritis where you lose the cartilage from the joint spaces.

I have problems with my facets in my thoracic spine too, but it is because they keep popping out of place and I have to have a chiropractor put them back in. Unfortunately the ligaments are stretched and they will not stay in place. But mine is a different problem from yours. If you injured your back (bones) in an accident you can develop osteoarthritis at the site of the injury. This is common with bony injuries. I broke my foot and have osteo where the fractures were. Osteo is not an autoimmune disease like rheumatoid. It is confusing because they call them both arthritis. The autoimmune forms of arthritis are rheumatoid, polymyalgia, ankylosing spondylitis, lupus, etc. Well at least I thik lupus is related to rheumatoid arthritis.

I think the recommendation for physio is a good one, and also anti-inflammatories (NSAIDS) can help with the inflammation. Good luck on relieving your pain with physio and something like ibuprofen, if you can tolerate it.

[num1habsfan]

Interesting about your find, mushroom.

the thing is that Rheumatoid is very common in my family..i get major inflamation/swelling, and when it hits one side of me it hits the other at the same time. And like I said, I had not had any signs of arthritis since getting Celiac. So maybe the injury was just how it got started it in my back. I've always had it in my left knee, right wrist, and right ankle. And doesn't Celiac greatly increase the risk of RA??

I may ask then about the physiotherapy thing...but it could be fun finding a physiotherapist. My doctor is at home town, not in the city where I'm going to school.

I don't know if I can handle ibuprofen, I have trouble stomaching a lot of pills. So Tylenol 3 might be what I have to stick with. Which is okay, because it works.

(how is this not a related disorder?)

[mushroom]

And doesn't Celiac greatly increase the risk of RA??

It is true that autoimmune diseases such as RA are common in celiacs. I have psoriatic arthritis which I blame on gluten, because it gets worse if I am accidentally glutened and has improved greatly being gluten free (although I still have to take sulfasalazine for it). The rheumatoid arthritis shows up in my toes, hands, shoulders, neck and upper arms., with swelling in my fingers and toes and wrist. My dad also had RA, but I think I got the gluten intolerance from my mom.

I do think we have to be careful not to blame all our ailments on gluten. Many, perhaps most, are as a direct result of gluten, but I have not heard of osteoarthritis being gluten related.

Like you, I cannot tolerate ibuprofen which is why I added the proviso. If Tylenol 3 works for you, stick with it, although unfortunately the anti-inflammatories work better at controlling the inflammation which is associated with osteo and other forms of arthritis.

[num1habsfan]

I'm going home to see my one family doc on monday..unfortunately for me its the same guy who wouldn't explain anything to me last time. Oh well, i'll bring it up anyways. Ask him for a more precise test.

[tarnalberry]

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking him to be more precise about. sometimes you can't identify the cause of physical issues like that. any injury in the past may have set you up for OA, and that's not going to show up, just what remains - the OA.

PT, yoga, chiropractic, keeping moving! these are all important things. you want to be aware of how you're moving and doing it smartly, but developing muscular strength to support the spine so that it doesn't further compress the lumbar disks and having proper posture and movement to minimize the strain placed on them is important. movement is important, in and of itself, to keep the disks as healthy as they can be, as it is movement that keeps synovial fluid moving through them; they have no direct blood supply of their own.

[fedora]

hi.

When I researched facet joint problems I found facet joint syndrome. It is degeneration of the cartlidge on the facet joints usually due to wear and tear in elderly people or an accident.

Did your xray show damage to the facet joints or to the lumbar discs between the vertebrea? OR both?

My Dr thinks it is my facet joints due to my description of my pain. It is ALL on my left side. He says my left facet joints are getting stuck. That is common with facet joint problems to have the pain on one side only.

My physical therapist has me doing strength training and posture correction. THe posture correcting has helped so much on it's own. The other thing is he checked my feet and hips. One hip was tilted wrong so I did exercises to correct it. AND by doing them my left knee stopped hurting!!!

Also my arches are not high enough so I got inserts for my shoes to get my arches up. I know several people who have found out their feet were what was causing their back problems.

good luck

[num1habsfan]

Okie, so I got a form for bloodwork (to test for RA).

He's also going to find the contact information (or a referral) to someone in the city where I go to school.

[num1habsfan]

Just to give an update, my bloodwork for RA was negative (then again, i had it tested when I wasn't having a flare).

I'm also going to have my first physiotherapy session this friday (Jan. 16/09) at the university. Out of curiosity, I am going to mention that I have Celiac...I wonder what she will have to comment on that. We all know that Celiac and Arthritis go hand-in-hand, but will a physiotherapist see the connection???

[teemaree]

hi.

When I researched facet joint problems I found facet joint syndrome. It is degeneration of the cartlidge on the facet joints usually due to wear and tear in elderly people or an accident.

Did your xray show damage to the facet joints or to the lumbar discs between the vertebrea? OR both?

My Dr thinks it is my facet joints due to my description of my pain. It is ALL on my left side. He says my left facet joints are getting stuck. That is common with facet joint problems to have the pain on one side only.

My physical therapist has me doing strength training and posture correction. THe posture correcting has helped so much on it's own. The other thing is he checked my feet and hips. One hip was tilted wrong so I did exercises to correct it. AND by doing them my left knee stopped hurting!!!

Also my arches are not high enough so I got inserts for my shoes to get my arches up. I know several people who have found out their feet were what was causing their back problems.

good luck

My goodness gracious me.........

I am newley diagnosed at long last with celiac... I really feel that I had suffered with it all my life...

and reading these pages , every major health issue I have had in my life all seems to be related..

this is so weird....

When I was only 26 years old... I ruptured 3 of my lower lumber disc...but my major problem was in the left facet joint if my back...and till this day remains tender to any kind of touch...

I had never heard of anyone else that had back problems , having problems in the facet joint...

then Ta da... I stumble across this interesting thread........

I also have a curvature of the spine, and also.... I can't recall the name of it, but the bottom vertibre didn't form properly.

So all of it could be related to celiac?

[Fiddle-Faddle]

Physical therapy is a great idea. They should give you exercises to strengthen abdominal muscles and your entire trunk, to help support the weakened spine, and those exercises should be specific ones that don't put more stress on spine (crunches, for example, are OUT).

A good chiropractor can make a WORLD of difference. Unfortunately, there are a lot of quacks out there (not limited to chiropractors--we all know that they're in every MD specialization!!! ), and a bad chiropractor can do real harm. If there is a chiropractic office reasonably close, you can hang out outside the door, and ask the patients walking out how much they feel it's helped. As a student, you can easily pretend you're doing research for a report on chiropractic care! (Or just do it for real, turn it in to a class, and get credit for it!)

You can also keep track visually: If they come in limping, hunched over, with pain etched in their faces, and walk out standing up straight looking awed and happy, that's a GOOD sign. If they come dragging out in tears--not so good.

Another idea is supplementation--if you are not allergic or sensitive to the ingredietns, you might try some of the supplements aimed at joint pain sufferers. Look for hyaluronic acid and glucosamine chondroitin. I take one made by Schiff, but there are many out there.

My hubby, who is a chemist, swears that eating Jello is a good thing, as it's high in collagen--which you need in your joints. So if you don't mind the sugar and the artificial color and flavors, eat Jello! (I don't like them, but eat it anyway.) If you're not as lazy as I am, you can buy plain, unflavored gelatin, and mix it with fruit juice for a much healthier and probably better-flavored Jello. Look on the Internet for tips and tricks--some fruits DON'T mix with Jello, like fresh (but not canned) pineapple, which has an enzyme that keeps the gelatin from setting.

[teemaree]

Physical therapy is a great idea. They should give you exercises to strengthen abdominal muscles and your entire trunk, to help support the weakened spine, and those exercises should be specific ones that don't put more stress on spine (crunches, for example, are OUT).

A good chiropractor can make a WORLD of difference. Unfortunately, there are a lot of quacks out there (not limited to chiropractors--we all know that they're in every MD specialization!!! ), and a bad chiropractor can do real harm. If there is a chiropractic office reasonably close, you can hang out outside the door, and ask the patients walking out how much they feel it's helped. As a student, you can easily pretend you're doing research for a report on chiropractic care! (Or just do it for real, turn it in to a class, and get credit for it!)

You can also keep track visually: If they come in limping, hunched over, with pain etched in their faces, and walk out standing up straight looking awed and happy, that's a GOOD sign. If they come dragging out in tears--not so good.

I can only tell you my own personal experience with how I delt and got through, and am now able to live a fairly pain free life of my back....

For three years I was flat on my back , they tried traction , physio, and chiro, injections of steroids into the joins and all kinds of tests like lumber discograms etc....

I had a full body cast....

Everything they tried just made me worst and worst... honestly the pain was dreadfull... I went through all that for a period of approx 10 years... when I realized noone can help me... I can only help myself...I didn't want doctors to come near my back again....becuse everytime I felt things were starting to settle, it appeared that the things they were doing would just stir it up futher and cause me to suffer further pain.

What worked for me....

Was accupuncture.... I never believed in it, but honestly had doctors told me, that cutting off my right arm would bring relief, I would have done it!...

My doctor suggested accupuncture... and honestly it gave me respite from pain... this is when I learnt to listen to what my back was telling me,. I started recognising spasms, and learning not to move certain ways that would upset my back... I learnt that reaching forwards was a real no no.....if I did that, that was that the thing that would set things off quicker than anything.... REACHING....

I learnt when I needed to take weight off my back, by sitting for a while or laying, I learnt to live life again... it did take trial and error , but now I live a very normal life , where I can stand all day when I work and even bend a little , althought I always bend at the knees...

occassionally my back still sends out them signals to say... NO.... DON'T EVEN ATTEMPT GOING FURTHER IN DOING THAT!!!....it's all a matter of really taking notice and going slowly and trial and error..... I use to say it felt like climbing a mountain, you start to feel you are reaching the top and then the simplest of action would knock you straight down to the bottom of the mountain again, and you would have to start the climb again to relief...........I never thought I'd see the peek... but I honestly can say I have been standing on the peak now for a good 12 years, and never want to pushed down the mountain again....so I listen to what the body says.... and do it immediatley!

[num1habsfan]

Physical therapy is a great idea. They should give you exercises to strengthen abdominal muscles and your entire trunk, to help support the weakened spine, and those exercises should be specific ones that don't put more stress on spine (crunches, for example, are OUT).

A good chiropractor can make a WORLD of difference. Unfortunately, there are a lot of quacks out there (not limited to chiropractors--we all know that they're in every MD specialization!!! ), and a bad chiropractor can do real harm. If there is a chiropractic office reasonably close, you can hang out outside the door, and ask the patients walking out how much they feel it's helped. As a student, you can easily pretend you're doing research for a report on chiropractic care! (Or just do it for real, turn it in to a class, and get credit for it!)

You can also keep track visually: If they come in limping, hunched over, with pain etched in their faces, and walk out standing up straight looking awed and happy, that's a GOOD sign. If they come dragging out in tears--not so good.

Another idea is supplementation--if you are not allergic or sensitive to the ingredietns, you might try some of the supplements aimed at joint pain sufferers. Look for hyaluronic acid and glucosamine chondroitin. I take one made by Schiff, but there are many out there.

My hubby, who is a chemist, swears that eating Jello is a good thing, as it's high in collagen--which you need in your joints. So if you don't mind the sugar and the artificial color and flavors, eat Jello! (I don't like them, but eat it anyway.) If you're not as lazy as I am, you can buy plain, unflavored gelatin, and mix it with fruit juice for a much healthier and probably better-flavored Jello. Look on the Internet for tips and tricks--some fruits DON'T mix with Jello, like fresh (but not canned) pineapple, which has an enzyme that keeps the gelatin from setting.

Interesting suggestions, thank you! Though I wouldn't do the jello thing...ANYTHING that looks likes jelly grosses me out. I've never eaten Jello as a kid and not about to start now . I don't even eat headcheese for either xmas. And avoided xmas cakes because of the jelly-type candies in it. You get the picture hehe.

I only wish that friday won't be just paperwork and such. I'm having a bad flare right now of my back... extreme changes in weather = back spasms. I barely slept because it hurt any way I turned, and after sitting for 50 minutes in class this morning, when I stood up I nearly fell because it shot a jolt of pain!

[frec]

I've had back problems for six years, starting with a herniated lumbar disk that didn't improve and then turning into facet joint problems with SI joint instability. The only thing that really improved things was prolotherapy. You might want to read up on it--just google prolotherapy. There isn't enough research on it--drug companies don't fund research on treatments that don't involve nice expensive drugs. Prolotherapy uses sugar solutions or sometimes adds your own platelets. It deliberately irritates the injured joint to stimulate a focused immune response and develop scar tissue to strengthen the area. After several facet joint and SI joint shots I now can sit again for the first time since 2002.

[mushroom]

I second the prolotherapy suggestion. I have had it in the past in the SI joint, in my ankle, for my fibula which wouldn't stay in place, etc., etc., and am currently having treatment for a thoracic back injury (third one tomorrow--hurray). The glucose solution they inject (along with some anesthetic) sends an irritant message to the brain that triggers a repair mechanism to strengthen the area. It is amazing. Some practitioners are better than others at getting the right spots. But it is sure worth a try. My current practitioner is also having me rub in a transdermal Vitamin D3 cream which he swears by and has written a published paper on. Have only been using it for a week so too soon to say if it is helping, but it does seem to decrease my rheumatoid pain too

[num1habsfan]

Ahhh I think I have valid reason for my arthritis to be a terrible, terrible flare. The current temperature outside right now, at 12:50 a.m., is -40 C, with a -53 C windchill... thats -40 F, and -63 F windchill.

I'm sure even people with HEALTHY backs can get it chilled. But this is just awful...I didnt fall asleep til 7 am (and then didnt go to class this morning because I couldn't move!).

[num1habsfan]

Just want to say that I had the initial session...quite expensive for just a brief intro into things. All she really did was ask for my medical history, what sort of medications I'm on, to give permission to see x-rays of my back, to send information/session results to my family doctor, and tested muscle strengths or whatever all over. Definitely discovered that the left side of my back is the worst, my left knee is very touchy, and my left ankle can handle very little pressure.

I have to go back next wednesday and friday for actual treatment...

[num1habsfan]

uh oh...I went for my session today and because of the mystery stomach pains (extreme pains on left side, severe nausea, dizziness) for the second time in the last 5 days she changed the treatment. She was going to use shock therapy but said that could set it off more if it is the kidney. So instead she used an ultrasound machine (which oddly enough, DOES make it feel better).

She also said go to a walk-in clinic TODAY. So i think I'll miss my afternoon class and head out there by taxi, see what they have to say. When I had this 'attack' over the weekend I noticed black specks that would sink to the bottom! (i always use a collection pan as soon as I feel pains anywhere that I usually dont).

Keep your fingers crossed for me. I hope it's just some bad bladder/kidney infection, and not a kidney stone or the appendix....