Pretty Sure It's Not Allergies, But My Other Theory Is Sort Of Out There...

[IChaseFrisbees]

I certainly find myself posting a lot lately, this website is gold.

So, I've been wondering if I have other allergies, or at least for the moment have trouble digesting other carb-loaded foods, such as corn, potatoes etc., but now I think I have a new theory.

Yesterday I was sort of out and about, then had to come home, pack and move back into my dorm and all I ended up eating all day was an entire rotisserie style chicken from trader joe's. This was the first time I haven't eaten rice/sweet potatoes/some other source of carbs for energy at every meal (I generally try to eat a lot because I do a lot of physical activities.) Well, I felt awesome. Like the best I've felt since before this gluten problem struck me suddenly, and then today I ate scrambled eggs and was fine, ate some bean bread and was fine, then for dinner had chicken and rice at the same time and bam, back to feeling like crap (though not as bad as when I eat gluten.)

Is there something about either stuff like rice and potatoes that could be bothering me, or is it just eating them at the same time as meat/other high protein foods? I read somewhere that I shouldn't eat rice with meat for some strange reason, can't exactly remember why...

Is anything like this common of people with gluten intolerance? What should I do to further investigate and start feeling better? I felt so good I spent all night thinking about how fun practice was gonna be the next day, I'd like to go back to that being every day.

[April in KC]

A few thoughts:

1. Rice and potatoes have a high glycemic index. You might have subtle or not-so-subtle insulin issues, such as pre-diabetes or metabolic syndrome, or even undiagnosed diabetes. For pre-diabetes, it's not as simple as just checking your blood sugar. To study this possibility for yourself, you might look for a list of high and low glycemic index and glycemic load foods. Try eating just the low GI foods for a while, then try some other high GI foods that are NOT rice or potatoes, just to see how they affect you.

2. Grain intolerance and/or potato (nightshade) intolerance are a possibility.

3. You might look into the specific carbohydrate diet (SCD).

I know too much rice makes me feel not so hot. I do better with rice varieties that are lower in starch. For example, Basmati rice is okay, but Arborio is not so good for me.

Good luck!

[IChaseFrisbees]

My issues are almost all digestive, would pre or full blown diabetes be affecting me that way? I'm looking into the book on the specific carb diet right now, I think that may do me lots of good. Is it safe to eat primarily one meat, like at least 2 meals a day? I eat chicken non-stop because it's something the dining hall has readily available for me at all times.

[AliB]

Although you may not be diabetic (best to get tested if you are at all concerned - do you need to drink a lot?), you may be pre-diabetic - in other words, your body does not process carbs (sugar, grains and starches) very effectively.

I had a problem with carbs (I used to get Hypos a lot) for years before I finally became diabetic as I turned 40. The only 2 times in my life I felt well was when I low-carbed. You'd think that would have been enough to keep me on it! Carbs would send me into the blood-sugar yo-yo routine and protein would level it out.

It is the blood sugar yo-yo effect that encourages the fatigue. People are eating a high proportion of carbs all day and their blood sugar is bouncing up and down incessantly. The unstable BS drains the energy as does the poor carb digestion too - double whammy, and the poor old pancreas doesn't know if it is coming or going! Do you get Hypos?

Low carbing and diets like the SCD are ideal for those of us who do not cope with carbs (I am on the SCD) as it helps to keep the BS more stable. If you need to snack then fruit and veg is better (bananas can spike the BS if eaten on their own - I tend to have one in a veg and fruit smoothie in the mornings which gives me enough for breakfast and lunch!), carrot and celery sticks, apple, pear, etc., will give energy but not spike the blood sugar as not only are they eaten relatively slowly but the fiber also slows down the absorption rate. Fruit juices however should either be avoided or VERY diluted and drunk slowly as, without the fiber they whop the BS up very fast.

The SCD kicks off with chicken so it shouldn't hurt at all to have it several times a day - you have to eat! Chicken and cooked carrots are two of the easiest foods for a damaged gut to digest. The chicken and carrots routine can be eaten for between 2 to 5 days as the Intro to the SCD, then gradually more 'legal' foods can be introduced. You can then try changing to fish and other protein sources too. Some, like pork and beef may have to wait until your gut has healed better, but it's just a case of trying and seeing.

There is an SCD thread on the 'Other Food Intolerances' section if you fancy some moral support!

Ali.

[IChaseFrisbees]

I'm sorry, what are Hypos?

I never had a problem digesting anything before, and then this set in in one day and since that day I've had digestive issues that just won't abate, no matter how careful I am about gluten. It's gotta be something else, but even off of dairy, corn, soy and potatoes I still react to rice with chicken of all things!!

Very frustrating, I don't feel like I drink a lot and I don't really have the chronic fatigue problem either...At least, I don't think I do, if I do then I've had it my whole life because my energy levels feel fine gluten free.

Is poor digestion of carbs related to gluten intolerance? Like, does it mean that I damaged my stomach, and right now I can't eat them but once I avoid all the offending foods and let my stomach heal entirely I'll be able to eat them again?

The problem is I eat a lot. Like, generally I eat 6 eggs in the morning, and I'll be starving by lunch like 2 hours later. Before this stomach thing kicked in I could easily eat 6 full meals in a day, which I guess is the product of lots of working out and exercise. Now that I'm limited in options it makes it hard to eat enough to support lifting (protein shakes are a no go, gluten free, dairy free, either or both still set my stomach off.) I thought I was doing a good thing eating plenty of rice and potatoes for energy before running!

[AliB]

Hypos are hypoglycemic episodes. Hyper-glycemia is high blood sugar, Hypo- is low. What typically happens in an carb-sensitive person is that too much carb pushes the blood sugar up very rapidly, the pancreas responds by dumping a load of insulin into the bloodstream to bring it back down, then it tends to go too low and not too long after eating, the person then nosedives into a hypo which gives them the shakes, makes them feel weak, and gives them the urge to eat a load more carb which sets the cycle up all over again.

Usually having protein with the carb will slow down the rate at which the carb is absorbed, but it seems as though you may actually have developed an intolerance to quite a few of the carbs.

Something has obviously gone wrong down there but finding out what is often like looking for a needle in a haystack. Sometimes we just have to try and read what our body is trying to tell us.

If you get a reaction when you eat carbs then it is telling you that it can't cope with them. Carbs may give you a temporary energy boost but protein and fats will give you a sustained one, so you won't collapse without the carbs. The Eskimos and Inuit work very hard, long days without carbs and they are all mega fit and lean.

Our Western culture relies very heavily on carbs and they are actually a modern 'invention'. Grains have been around for a long time, but the diet did not necessarily revolve around them, nor were they highly processed like they are now. Nowadays, however, we are encouraged to ingest it from the minute we get up to the minute we go to bed, and it is no wonder that the incidence of Diabetes is sky-rocketing! We were not designed to consume this much all the time.

Everywhere we go we are faced with shelves and shelves of candy, sweets, desserts, cakes, cookies, pasta, pies, bagels, cereals, you name it. These 'dead' cooked and processed foods have elbowed out the foods that we need for vitality and life, namely the fruit and vegetables and good protein sources, probably because they are 'quick-fixes' for busy people to just 'grab and run'.

Although the body can supply some enzymes for life sustenance, we also need to get a quantity from our food. That comes from good quality organic raw foods, unpasteurised milk, fermented foods, most of which we are denied in this current system. If we keep 'robbing' the body of the enzymes it needs for repair and restoration because we are not supplying them in our diet, then eventually the whole thing will just collapse.

It doesn't sound as though you are diabetic, but again, I would get it checked if you are not sure. You say that eating the rice made you feel horrible. In what way?

[IChaseFrisbees]

Well, it may be TMI but when I ate chicken over rice I got really gassy, horrible "bubble gut" where there's just tons of movement going on in my intestines, then I had to go number 2 like 2-3 times and the next morning my BM was very unpleasant.

All the things that happen to me when I eat gluten, basically. Those are the symptoms I've had for like 7 months now. It seems like today (I haven't been eating any rice, grains etc., just chicken and some fruit and cooked veggies today and yesterday) most of the feelings are much better than they usually are, the gas and that consciousness of things moving around in my gut and intestines, but my bm's have still been bad.

I've been afraid to go back to yogurt because I went off dairy, unsure whether I'm having a problem with lactose or with casein itself! It's so hard to tell what's setting me off when, but would going a week or so without extra carbs (beyond fruits) and then trying good plain cultured yogurt (my mom introduced me to this stuff from trader joe's which I'm a huge fan of) be a good idea? And can quantity of yogurt be a factor in bad reactions, or will a little do the same bad as a lot if it's not going to be good for me?

Thank you so much for your advice, and I've never had Hypos the way you describe them to the best of my knowledge, I've been in pretty good health overall except my digestive issues. If yogurt turns out to be a problem would probiotics be a good idea for the healing process?

[AliB]

Bit like when you cut gluten out your gut probably didn't settle until a few days later - probably the same thing with the rice - it will take a few days to work through and out.

Many find that they get a lot of gas and bloating with different carbs - I have a theory that it has something to do with rogue microbes in our gut. They feed off gluten and their activity and the toxins they produce creates inflammation. When we remove gluten we may feel ok for a bit, but eventually we start to develop an intolerance to other foods, usually carbs and often things like soy, corn and sometimes rice.

My theory (and there is some documented research to support it) is that when we take the gluten away, they die back then gradually 'regroup', adapt to a different food source then come back with a vengeance and sometimes we end up back where we started like you have, but now with rice instead.

That is the benefit with the SCD in that it removes all the troublesome carbs in one fell swoop so the bugs have nowhere else to go. You have to be pretty disciplined for it to work, but although it can take a bit of time, most who go on it can see the benefit, even within the first few weeks - you effectively have started it with the food you have eaten today and can already see the benefit of not having those carbs.

The 24-hour SCD yogurt is better than the commercial stuff that is only cultured for about 6 - 8 hours because not only is there a much higher concentration of the good bacteria, but it also means that most, if not all of the lactose is pre-digested and the casein is rendered into a more tolerable form. But failing that commercial live yogurt is probably better than none. If you can't cope with it then probiotic capsules may be an easier option depending on what is in them.

It is interesting that you said this started pretty suddenly. It is possible that you may have acquired a rogue bacteria or even a parasite that is creating merry whatsit down there. Is there any way you could be tested for any parasites, particularly Helicobacter Pylori? It lives in the stomach and can cause gas, bloating, poor digestion and even ulcers, as it generates Urease that dilutes and neutralises stomach acid. It is estimated that over half the World's population are infected with it. Many are asymptomatic but in others it can cause problems. Might be worth getting checked out for that if you can.

[IChaseFrisbees]

Haha it was very possible. I went to a party where I drank far too much beer and then ate a couple of weed cupcakes, haven't been right since the day after. I did a 3 day stool test that checked for parasites, bacteria etc. and it came up with something which I took an antibiotic to get rid of, but I still didn't improve. Then I had a colonoscopy, that came back fine and dandy and the very next day I got my enterolab results which said I was positive for gluten intolerance. I guess a day sooner I could've saved myself having a camera shoved up my butt, but sometimes that's the way it goes.

Anyway, the stool test that came up with the bacteria also said I had some yeast if I remember correctly, which was never addressed because I had to pick up and move to college and never found time to go back to the doc. Could yeast have something to do with this, and if not what is bad about yeast?

The rest of the test said I was at basically 0 for all the good bacteria, so I was really depleted. I took some probiotics for a couple weeks after that and ate lots of yogurt, but I've been off both for a long time now.

Should I do a retest and see if anything has changed?

[GFinDC]

Hi Frisbeechaser,

It sounds to me like you might benefit from an elimination diet. An elimination diet can be used to identify foods that cause problems for your body. There are various versions of elimination diets around that you can try out. But the basic idea is to reduce the number of foods you eat each day to a certain small number of items. You would pick out food items that you don't think are any problem for you. If you can eat these foods for 5 to 7 days without problems then you can move on and add other foods one at a time. If you are still having problems after the first 5 days then you would re-evaluate the foods in your starting group of foods and replace one of them. The starting group would be single ingredients, like potatoes, apples, chicken, rice, grapes. You wouldn't want to have something like pizza, or succatash or any multi-ingredient food dish in your starting group. Quinoa could be a substitute for rice in a starting group. Or not having a grain in a starting group is ok too. Once you have a problem free starting group identified, then you can add other food items. A new one every 2 or 3 days is one way to go. If you search the web for "elimination diet" you can find lots of versions to choose from. The simpler the better is my opinion. One thing to be aare of though si that if you find a troublesome food with the diet, don't stop there. Put that food on your bad list and continue the process of adding new foods one at a time. You may find you have reactions to several foods, not just one. Spices and oils used in cooking are food items to consider also, and vitamins and medicines should be looked at.

There is a list of major food allergens that FDA identifies. Probably not good to put any of those in a starting group.

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Under FALCPA, food labels are required to state clearly whether the food contains a "major food allergen." The law identifies as a major food allergen any of eight allergenic foods: milk; eggs; fish such as bass, flounder, and cod; crustacean shellfish such as crab, lobster, and shrimp; tree nuts such as almonds, walnuts, and pecans; peanuts; wheat; and soybeans. The law also identifies as a major food allergen any ingredient that contains protein derived from any of these eight foods.

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By the way, you said you don't drink much. Beer is a possible problem on the gluten-free diet unless you get gluten-free beer. There are a few gluten-free brands available. Wine is a problem for some people also (like me), possibly due to the yeast or the sulfites or the fining agents. Water and tea taste fine though. :-)

It would probably be good idea to start taking some probiotics a few weeks before starting an elimination diet. That way you are not adjusting to them while on the diet.

Anyway, I hope you figure out the solution.

[IChaseFrisbees]

I stopped drinking beer once on the gluten free diet, but all alcohol is pretty much bad right now. I feel fine while consuming it, but the next day my symptoms are terrible.

The thing about the elimination diet is I want to do it, but I'm sort of obsessed with finding out the reasons behind everything. Like, I don't just want to find out I can't eat corn, or tomatoes or something, I want to know why that would pop up all of a sudden!

I think right now I'm going to at least try the specific carb diet (as well as I can here in the dorms and dining halls.) But an elimination diet is a great idea for when I have some more control over my diet, thank you very much for the suggestion.

If I'm having trouble digesting rice, are eggs okay or not? They're mostly fat and protein, right?

[AliB]

If eggs aren't a problem and don't seem to give you any reaction then there is no reason not to eat them. Yes they are predominantly fat and protein.

If the stool test said that your gut bacteria was at 0 then taking probiotics and yogurt for 2 weeks would not make much difference. It needs to be taken pretty much continuously - the good bacteria are quite transient and need to be replaced. You need to make sure you are having good live plain yogurt - not the Activia type stuff which is full of sugar.

Every time you have antibiotics you are going to deplete the good bacteria still further and the risk of Candida taking over becomes more likely. The good bacteria is the 'soldiers' in gut. Kill the soldiers and the 'city' is undefended. Pathogens move in and there is nothing left to stop them.

Another stool test may not hurt if you are happy to do that but certainly it looks as if Candida is still an issue. Once it changes into its mycelial form it becomes like internal 'dry rot' putting out its 'roots' into every area it can get to and aggravating the body from the inside out and can certainly disrupt digestion and interfere with absorption of nutrients.

If you have any issues with things like Athlete's foot, 'Jock itch', fungal toenails, dandruff, halitosis, etc., then your body is a yeast factory.

The likely reason you feel horrible the day after consuming alcohol is because Candida converts sugars to Acetylaldehyde which is a type of alcohol. Hence the situation where some people have been found to be drunk even though they haven't had any alcohol. Many Candida sufferers find that they wake up every morning feeling like they have a hangover! If you drink alcohol on top of that it is no wonder you feel yuk. Candida is a big problem for me and I haven't been able to tolerate alcohol for years.

I am convinced that the Candida makes you crave the food it feeds on. Most people who follow the SCD or Candida diets find that although they crave sugar and carbs for the first few days, eventually the craving goes away and they can cope with the diet ok after that.

If you can be disciplined enough then the SCD or a Candida diet would certainly help over a period of time - it can take a while to get the better of the little beggars, but worth it in the end. Keep the fruit and the honey consumption low until you are confident the Candida is under control.

[Jestgar]

- the good bacteria are quite transient and need to be replaced.

This statement is inaccurate.

Once bacteria colonize, they don't go away.

Another stool test may not hurt if you are happy to do that but certainly it looks as if Candida is still an issue. Once it changes into its mycelial form it becomes like internal 'dry rot' putting out its 'roots' into every area it can get to and aggravating the body from the inside out and can certainly disrupt digestion and interfere with absorption of nutrients.

Do you have any references for what you're claiming?

If you can be disciplined enough then the SCD or a Candida diet would certainly help over a period of time - it can take a while to get the better of the little beggars, but worth it in the end.

Please avoid assuming a diagnosis, and then suggesting a treatment.

[IChaseFrisbees]

Well, first of all what is Candida? My test results just said "yeast +1" or something to that affect, and I think the 1 was out of a scale of 5.

Gluten intolerance is something I certainly have and rice, potatoes and other things of that nature (I'm assuming carbs) bother my stomach up top (very gurgly etc.) as well as my BM's, but today I ate a tons of fruit in one sitting and I had no upper problems but My BM afterwards was (stop reading here if it's TMI) very soft, not that well formed and left a lot of residue as it were.

Now, not getting too ahead of ourselves (thank you jestgar for keeping my hypochondria in check ) I did get jock itch when I was like 14, got a cream for it but it never truly went away. My test said I have some yeast, could yeast be the reason fruit bothered my BM? If not, what could be the reason? My stool test said I had no malabsorption...

At this point just from following my food diary and looking at what upsets my stomach I'm eating only meats, veggies (mostly cooked,) nuts, eggs and fruits, and the fruits seem to be a bit of a problem, but you can't really cut fruit out of your diet now can you. I guess I'll try to cut it back?

I just ate yogurt with honey in it (honey doesn't bother me) about 10 minutes ago and there doesn't seem to be any major disturbance.

Last question, in relation to yeast I never had digestive troubles before this all kicked in, and I would often eat pretty poorly (pizza, soda, burgers and all the other delicious things I miss so much.) So is yeast constantly in your gut, and it only bothers you when it gets out of control?

[GFinDC]

I stopped drinking beer once on the gluten free diet, but all alcohol is pretty much bad right now. I feel fine while consuming it, but the next day my symptoms are terrible.

Hmmm, yeah, I think that next day stuff happens to most people! Bummer! There are gluten-free alcohols available though. I avoid the gluten-free beers myself because of the yeast in them.

The thing about the elimination diet is I want to do it, but I'm sort of obsessed with finding out the reasons behind everything. Like, I don't just want to find out I can't eat corn, or tomatoes or something, I want to know why that would pop up all of a sudden!

I think right now I'm going to at least try the specific carb diet (as well as I can here in the dorms and dining halls.) But an elimination diet is a great idea for when I have some more control over my diet, thank you very much for the suggestion.

If I'm having trouble digesting rice, are eggs okay or not? They're mostly fat and protein, right?

It seems like you are in kind of a tough spot for the diet to work. If you are eating in the dining halls and they aren't taking steps to prepare your food in a gluten-free manner, then you are at risk every time you eat there. For instance, the rice that bothers you could be cross contaminated during preparation, or even have gluten containing spices added to it or possibly cooked in used pasta water. Just because it is rice doens't make it safe to eat. They could be serving it in a pan that had wheat noodles in it earlier. Or using the same spoon to stir wheat dishes and the rice. If the staff is not trained in gluten-free food preparation, then the foods are likely cross contaminated. Wheat flour is easily airborne and can float around and get into other dishes. It can also fall off clothing and land in the rice or eggs or anything.

I agree you can't do a proper elimination diet while eating in the dining halls. There is no way to avoid the possibility of CC without the staff being aware of the issue and trained on how to prepare foods safely for you. If the school can't provide safe foods for you to eat, then it seems you would be better off not eating there. I know, easier said than done. Perhaps the school would provide an allowance for your condition with regards to meal costs? It is probably less expensive for them to let you skip the meal plan and prepare your own foods than train the kitchen staff and create a gluten-free meal prep area. Maybe your school nutrionist can help with arrangments? You are probably not the only student with special diet requirements at your school.

Figuring out what is bothering you as far as other food intolerances would be difficult if you are being cc'd every day. Until your gut is gluten-free for a while and has chance to settle down and heal your system may react to lots of foods. Before I went gluten-free I had reactions to many things I ate. My GI system was so upset all the time that anything would set off a reaction. The way I think of it, if the gut is inflamed and irritated, then it is isn't going to be real happy with having anything in it. Kind of like rubbing a sore with sand. It hurts, no surprise there. Also I think the idea that your gut flora can get out of balance makes some sense. Poorly digested and absorbed foods could provide more nutrition to the gut critters and let them multiply like bunnies. This is what they say happens with lactose intolerance. The milk sugar lactose isn't broken down and absorbed correctly, so the gut critters get to eat it and grow big, strong and numerous. They also tend to fart (well, make gas) when they are growing/multiplying fast. They say the lactase enzyme is produced in the villi of the small intestine. I suppose other enzymes may be produced there also, or not produced if your villi are damaged. So you could be missing other food disgesting enzymes due to possible villi damage. All fun stuff eh?

I haven't tried the SCD myself, but there are some people on the board who say it works well for them. My own thing is to try and make all my food at home myself, so I know what goes into it. That way if I have a reaction to something, I have a chance to identify the culprit and eliminate it in the future.

If I'm having trouble digesting rice, are eggs okay or not? They're mostly fat and protein, right?

Eggs are not ok if they bother you. (Not saying they do) Everyone has their own body, and the symptoms/problems one person has can be very different from another celiac. You could be fine with eggs, or not. Your body might not produce the enzymes needed to digest eggs, or your body could develop an intolerance to them also. In celiac, the body makes antibodies that attack the undigested gluten protein and causes damage to the nearby body tissues. This can happen in the gut, or if the gluten protein enters the bloodstream, it can happen anywhere the blood goes.

Anyhow, that's how I understand it.. I hope that helps!

[AliB]

This statement is inaccurate.

Once bacteria colonize, they don't go away.

Ok, my use of the word 'quite' was not quite clear enough. Some of the good bacteria do indeed colonise, but there are others like Lactobacillus Bulgaricus and Streptococcus Thermophilus that are indeed transient. They colonise for a short period and are then moved out of the gut. They need to be replenished through ingestion, either from yogurt or probiotics (which is why certain cultures use yogurt, kefir, kvass, and other fermented foods daily). If a stool test indicates that an individual has little or no beneficial flora then what they did have has become transient - in other words, it has gone away and needs to be replaced.

Do you have any references for what you're claiming?

Have you seen the stuff come out after colonic irrigation, like cotton wool???

If you want a good detailed reference on Candida you can do no better than buy this book from the American Society for Microbiology. I am sure it has all the reference on Candida that you or anyone would ever need - unfortunately it costs about $135. You can pour through it on Google books - or what there is of it. You will notice the reference to Candida in both yeast and hyphae forms as well as pseudohyphae, and that differences in cell wall construction between the two forms have been noted. Hyphae are the filaments - the mycelium. I am sure I can dig out a few more references if you want them.

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Please avoid assuming a diagnosis, and then suggesting a treatment.

Doesn't this website assume diagnoses and then suggest treatments? Like 'yes, your symptoms do indicate that may be gluten intolerant, why not try going gluten-free for a while to see if it helps' to all those who come on here looking for help?? How does mine differ? gluten-free on its own is obviously not working in this case.

Yes, if your stool test came back positive for yeast and 0 beneficial bacteria as you have told me 'Ichasefrisbees', then following a good healthy diet that does not put any further burden on your stressed digestion and may well help to combat the yeast, cannot do any harm and should help your gut to heal. Have you had your digestive issues checked out with a doctor?

Interestingly, all the foods you have listed that you can cope with are pretty much the basis of the SCD. Even that diet recommends that if yeast is an issue, fruit and honey may have to be limited for a while until it is more under control. Although a welcome addition to the diet when we can have it, humans can exist without fruit (or very much in the way of carbs in general) - the Inuit manage quite happily and are fit and healthy into the bargain with little if any of our 'Western' type diseases (they suddenly start to pop up when they start to adopt the 'Western' diet and lifestyle. Funny that).

What you have to remember is that just because you weren't getting a problem with the sodas and the burgers and the pizza, doesn't mean that cumulative damage wasn't being created in the background. Poor food choices can have a tendency to catch up on us eventually, and often when we least expect it. May be sooner or later, depending on the individual but happen it will. It's like driving a car without maintaining it properly and keeping it roadworthy.

Just because you like it doesn't mean that your body does!

[Jestgar]

Doesn't this website assume diagnoses and then suggest treatments?

The website does not. Individuals might, and I have called others on this.

Yes, if your stool test came back positive for yeast and 0 beneficial bacteria as you have told me 'Ichasefrisbees', then following a good healthy diet that does not put any further burden on your stressed digestion and may well help to combat the yeast, cannot do any harm and should help your gut to heal. Have you had your digestive issues checked out with a doctor?

Interestingly, all the foods you have listed that you can cope with are pretty much the basis of the SCD.

This is appropriately worded.

Even that diet recommends that if yeast is an issue, fruit and honey may have to be limited for a while until it is more under control. Although a welcome addition to the diet when we can have it, humans can exist without fruit (or very much in the way of carbs in general) - the Inuit manage quite happily and are fit and healthy into the bargain with little if any of our 'Western' type diseases (they suddenly start to pop up when they start to adopt the 'Western' diet and lifestyle. Funny that).

This is not. I'm not arguing your statement, I'm saying that if you make a blunt "This is this way" statement, it's appropriate to back it up with a reference.

[IChaseFrisbees]

I've been following a gluten free book that said that I shouldn't eat too much uncooked fruit in the first few weeks off gluten because it would be hard for me to digest it, but I've been gluten free almost 3 months!

I ate a lot of fruit yesterday and I had horrible BM's, way worse than the 1-2 days where I was eating only chicken and cooked veggies. I'm supposed to see a nutritionist in a couple weeks who can help me out planning a diet, but here's my tentative plan for now:

I'm going to take another stool test checking for bacteria, parasites and yeast (1 for yeast and 2 to make sure I got rid of the bad bacteria I had that I took an antibiotic for, I believe it was called "C-Diff" or something to that effect.) If the yeast comes up heavy I'll talk to my doctor, but I do have a couple of questions about the candida/yeast action program:

Some people say that you take some sort of colon-cleansing product while on the anti-fungals and diet, is this a good idea? I like the idea of cleaning my system out a little bit, and tackling this head on with diet, natural anti-fungals and a colon cleanse seems pretty definitive. Is this something you guys have heard of?

[IChaseFrisbees]

It seems like you are in kind of a tough spot for the diet to work. If you are eating in the dining halls and they aren't taking steps to prepare your food in a gluten-free manner, then you are at risk every time you eat there. For instance, the rice that bothers you could be cross contaminated during preparation

The thing is, I had been having bad symptoms while I was at home for winter break for a month and preparing all my own meals, including lots and lots of rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes etc. At first I thought I was just reacting to corn, so I eliminated that, then that didn't do much at all...

Candida seems like it could be an option. Well, really I'm actually praying it is, every night I'm frustrated almost to the point of tears with the thought that I'll never get better. All my friends here at school are out having fun and I'm always in the room feeling so crappy! Too much fruit bothers my BM's, juice bothered me over the break, I gave up soda a while ago because it bothered me (which then I put down to the corn syrup, but now I think may be the sugar issue) I just don't know what to do anymore. Does Candida (if that is my problem, or at least yeast of some sort) ever truly go away, or do you have to stay on the diet forever?

[Mother of Jibril]

From what I understand, everybody has candida in their system. The trick is to get it in balance with good bacteria. That doesn't mean you have to stay on the "candida diet" or even the SCD forever... you can add things with sugar, starch, mold (bleu cheese), etc... back in as your body heals.

I think it's really important to figure out what works for YOU. There are plenty of people on this forum who eat corn on a daily basis and suggest using corn tortillas in place of bread. Through trial and error, I discovered that I feel much better if I don't eat corn. I can manage a little rice... other people have bad reactions (bloating, diarrhea, etc...). If fruit makes you feel bad, then it makes sense to go easy on it for a while You might be able to tolerate small amounts.

[AliB]

Some recommend doing colon cleanse - personally I think it is down to individual decision. There seems to be no doubt that some do seem to retain plaque within the colon and that it can make a good harbour for pathogens - any retention of fecal waste can apparently draw toxins back into the body too. It is widely recognised that we need to eliminate regularly (as in having regular and preferably daily BMs) to get toxins out of the body, but whether you choose to do a cleanse that is up to you.

I was thinking about the fruit. Apparently, whilst veg (particularly raw) is supposed to be very good at drawing toxins out of the body, fruit is the eliminator - it can help to get it out of the system which perhaps may be why your body is reacting to the fruit.

I have never, until recently, been able to cope with fruit very well - it gradually got more difficult as time went on until just about all I could cope with was a banana, and then only with other foods like yogurt. I have, over the years had allergic reactions to certain types of apple, oranges made my body too acid and anything of the peach family was a definite no-no - I couldn't even cut them up for the kids without getting an anaphylactic reaction. I have always been ok with them cooked though, weirdly. I was never sure if it was the fruit or something they were sprayed with!

I am still avoiding those at the moment although I do have apples, bananas, grapes, blueberries, lemon, melon, and am generally ok with most exotic fruit apart from fresh pineapple. It seems to be the acidity that affects me more than anything but that may be because my body is already more acid than it should be and perhaps the fruit sends it over the top.

I did the Alkalizing diet for a while about 2 years ago but had a mixed reaction to that. On one hand all my Candida stuff went away and the IBS cleared up for the first time in several years, but I got a very sore stomach, so sore in the end I had to stop the diet. I don't think it was the diet per se, but the fact that I followed it to the letter by including the 'green drink' and pH drops. Not realising back then that I had a problem with gluten I couldn't figure out what was going on, but have read that the wheat grass/barley grass green drink can be contaminated with seeds/grains which contain gluten.

I did wonder about salicylates in it too because I can't take aspirin - it makes my stomach very sore which was almost identical with the diet. I rang the company and asked if there were any salicylates in the green powder and was assured there weren't, but after further research I realised that virtually all plants contain some level of salicylates and the green drink was probably a very concentrated source. Duh. I think their Customer Service section needs retraining!

From the fact that the Candida cleared up and the IBS went away, even in just 3 to 4 weeks suggests to me that it was good for my body and I do now try to include raw smoothies every day if I can but I will pass on the green drink and pH drops . The raw food smoothies seem to have the opposite effect on me to what you are experiencing, even though they contain fruit. The fiber seems to bind me up and I have to make sure I drink plenty of water with it. It does give me more energy though, and I am sure the enzymes help my digestion. Without the addition of the green drink, etc., I seem to be able to cope perfectly well with the veg and fruit.

I had been on the SCD for about 6 months before I started to reintroduce the raw food, but now my body actually copes with that better than cooked, again that may well be because the raw food supplies enzymes I seem to be lacking. I still don't cope with carbs very well and definitely not sugar at all - if I have too much carb I get a pain in my back, and am wondering if it might be my Pancreas struggling to put out insulin it is no longer producing enough of, so because of the Diabetes I will probably need to be low carb for the rest of my life.

I only wish I had paid attention to and tried to understand what my body was trying to tell me 30 years ago. Because I was so much better and more energetic on low-carb, that was enough to tell me that had I stayed on it I almost certainly would not have been struggling with my health issues ever since, and perhaps might just have even avoided the Diabetes.

I think, in many ways it is about trying to learn to 'read' our bodies and understand what they need. As I mentioned before, what we want, and what our body needs unfortunately doesn't always equate to the same thing!

[Jestgar]

Just pointing out that "drawing out toxins" and a subclinical Candida infection are concepts not widely accepted, AND will have different meanings to different people.

Also, in clinical candida infections, it's frequently because of a compromised immune system. If you follow the logic through, you might think that any problems in your gut won't completely be resolved until your body regains it's balance. Be prepared to try a lot of things. If it were me, I'd start with what I was most likely to be able to live with.

And, unless your issue is constipation, I would never do a colon cleanse. I think that you'd disrupt the regulation of your body and would have to work on resetting THAT along with whatever else you have going on.

Now you have two completely different opinions. Which one fits most closely with your own beliefs? Do that one.

[mef]

Hi,

This isn't scientifc and is only based on my personal experience: When I went gluten-free, I focused on corn/potatoes/rice as substitues. It seems now that I'm starting to become sensitive to these food products. I know I went overboard using those products and I think my body is trying to even itself out. I've decided to cut back those products...I feel much better now!

Every celiac body, though, seems to be different. After reading through this forum, I am always surprised at the manifestations of symptoms.

Also, there may be issues of cc running around and making your stomach uncomfortable. I won't eat on campus now because I don't like relying on the behaviors of others.

Good luck!

[AliB]

Every celiac body, though, seems to be different. After reading through this forum, I am always surprised at the manifestations of symptoms.

How right you are - name any symptom and you can pretty much guarantee that someone with Celiac has or had it. We manifest with different symptoms because we are all different, and yet our gluten intolerance connects us all.

Funny thing is, although few would deign to even harbour the teeniest notion of the possibility that Celiac and many other diseases could actually be related, they do not bat an eyelid at the fact that people with those other diseases often also manifest with some of the same or very similar symptoms as do those with Celiac, whatever they might be, and that there might just be a connecting reason for that..........

Another funny thing is, as we see from the many experiences not only on here but on other forums, when people, whether diagnosed Celiac, 'merely' gluten intolerant, or even with other seemingly unrelated diseases go on a gluten-free diet of whatever type they choose, sooner or later many of those seemingly unrelated symptoms go away. So many of these seemingly unrelated diseases often seem to have as many similarities as they have differences, and yet sometimes even the differences seem to be related.

I can't help it - it's the Analyst coming out in me. I just have this overwhelming feeling that somewhere out there are all the bits of one very large jigsaw puzzle - like all the bits somehow fit together into one big picture - it's just a case of working out how and why. I have this big problem you see - I just can't ever stop asking - why?

[IChaseFrisbees]

Hey everybody, so from following my food diary this is as much as I've surmised:

Eating 1 apple or orange a day makes me a little gassy, but eating any more than that gives me outright bad digestive symptoms. Eating any carby foods (potatoes, rice, corn...) gives me bad symptoms.

I've been reading "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" and the SCD seems to be the right thing for me, but I also need to address the yeast problem. I was at +1 before I took an antibiotic, so who knows how bad it is now, but the reaction to fruit isn't a good sign.

My question is how do I talk to a nutritionists/naturopath about the SCD? I know docs hate it when you come in and say "wel I read on the internet..." So how can I talk to them without sounding like I'm trying to do their job?