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Wonder Why You May Be Reacting To Some Wines?

Mike M

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Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted

I got a chance to talk to the folks at Frey wines yesterday. The gal was very informative, explained why there is wheat in some wines and reasured me that their wines are both gluten free and are OK for vegan's. She also confirmed the yeast they use is NOT grown from a gluten source. Mike

"It might be disenchanting if the label also listed the chicken, fish, milk and wheat products that are often used to process wine."

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ChemistMama Contributor
ChemistMama
Posted

Mike M-

This is a hot topic on these boards. See below:

https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/index.php?showtopic=55600

https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/index.php?showtopic=50387

Thanks for the great article link!

If you want to read the gory details about the proposed alcohol labelling law from 2006, here's a link to the PDF from the gov't web site:

Open Original Shared Link

and the TTB's web site on alcohol allergen labelling:

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Long story short, there are no requirements for allergen labels on alcoholic beverages. I wish there were!

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author
Mike M-

This is a hot topic on these boards. See below:

https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/index.php?showtopic=55600

https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/index.php?showtopic=50387

Thanks for the great article link!

If you want to read the gory details about the proposed alcohol labelling law from 2006, here's a link to the PDF from the gov't web site:

Open Original Shared Link

and the TTB's web site on alcohol allergen labelling:

Open Original Shared Link

Long story short, there are no requirements for allergen labels on alcoholic beverages. I wish there were!

Hey, I was kind of shocked myself. I know many of the wine makers add in yeast to promote the fermentation and it is not always from a non-gluten source and this is a potential cross contamination issue for us. What I did not post was that the lady at Frey also said she knows that some of the "fining" ingredients (this is what they use to clarify the wine) that other wine makers use does indeed contain wheat but as the article and she stated, it is not required by law to label this. Bummer. I'll tell ya, she was on top of it, all I asked was if their wine was gluten free and she started talking and all I did was listen. I know I learned a lot! She said she runs the cellar. All the best, Mike

P.S. I know one thing, I am sticking with organic period.

majicbunnies Contributor
majicbunnies
Posted
I got a chance to talk to the folks at Frey wines yesterday. The gal was very informative, explained why there is wheat in some wines and reasured me that their wines are both gluten free and are OK for vegan's. She also confirmed the yeast they use is NOT grown from a gluten source. Mike

"It might be disenchanting if the label also listed the chicken, fish, milk and wheat products that are often used to process wine."

Open Original Shared Link

I just talked to a woman at Frey wines and she said that some of their wines are aged in oak barrels which most likely will have a wheat paste, and some wines are aged in steel barrels and are safe. Their website will state weather each wine is aged 'in' oak barrels or 'on' oak, which means they fill a mesh bag with oak and submerge it in the steel barrel to get the oak flavor.

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author
I just talked to a woman at Frey wines and she said that some of their wines are aged in oak barrels which most likely will have a wheat paste, and some wines are aged in steel barrels and are safe. Their website will state weather each wine is aged 'in' oak barrels or 'on' oak, which means they fill a mesh bag with oak and submerge it in the steel barrel to get the oak flavor.

Well now that is interesting. The lady I spoke with at Frey, was positive their wine was gluten free. This stinks, I just bought a bottle! Thanks for posting this info. Mike

majicbunnies Contributor
majicbunnies
Posted
Well now that is interesting. The lady I spoke with at Frey, was positive their wine was gluten free. This stinks, I just bought a bottle! Thanks for posting this info. Mike

The first time I called, she said the wines were gluten free and were aged in steel barrels. Then I was on their website and saw that the statement for certain wines said that they were aged 'in' oak, meaning in oak barrels. Then I called back and asked about that and she confirmed not all were made in steel barrels. ..I don't know why she didn't tell me that the first time.

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author
The first time I called, she said the wines were gluten free and were aged in steel barrels. Then I was on their website and saw that the statement for certain wines said that they were aged 'in' oak, meaning in oak barrels. Then I called back and asked about that and she confirmed not all were made in steel barrels. ..I don't know why she didn't tell me that the first time.

Well, scratch on the Frey wine for me.......I drank a half glass (was not sure what might happen) and within 1/2 hour, I got one massive headache and I very very rarely get a headache. Unfortunately, 24 hours later and its the big D, Foggy minded, bloated, not good. I have another brand I have on occasion and never have had an issue. The Frey was much cheaper and I thought I would give it a shot. Oh well.....Mike

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Lisa Mentor
Lisa
Posted

Are you certain that it's not the sulfites that you're reacting to:

"Contains Sulfites"

Current FDA regulations in the United States require that all wines, both domestic and imports, that contain 10+ ppm of sulfur dioxide state "Contains Sulfites" on the label. This label designation was intended to protect people that may be allergic to sulfites (an estimated 1% of the U.S. population), people with asthma are in the most susceptible category. Signs of sulfite sensitivities include: nasal congestion, headaches, skin flush, broncho-constriction, nausea, abdominal pain, and dizziness. Ironically, because of the technology available to today's winemakers, the amount of sulfur dioxide needed to inhibit oxidation, prevent further fermentation and stabilize the wine is at an all time low. The legal maximum sulfite level for U.S. wines is 350 ppm, with most wines averaging about 125 ppm. Naturally occuring levels of sulfur dioxide in a wine, without chemical additives, would weigh in at around 10-20 ppm.

majicbunnies Contributor
majicbunnies
Posted
Well, scratch on the Frey wine for me.......I drank a half glass (was not sure what might happen) and within 1/2 hour, I got one massive headache and I very very rarely get a headache. Unfortunately, 24 hours later and its the big D, Foggy minded, bloated, not good. I have another brand I have on occasion and never have had an issue. The Frey was much cheaper and I thought I would give it a shot. Oh well.....Mike

Which Frey wine did you have a reaction to? And which wine do you drink without a problem?

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author
Which Frey wine did you have a reaction to? And which wine do you drink without a problem?

Frey Zinfandel 2007 North Coast organic wine.

Coturri Zinfandel is the one I have never had a problem with. Mike

majicbunnies Contributor
majicbunnies
Posted
Frey Zinfandel 2007 North Coast organic wine.

Coturri Zinfandel is the one I have never had a problem with. Mike

That's weird because the frey's wine you reacted to should have been gluten free because it's aged on oak, not in. And the stuff you don't react to says it's aged in oak barrels, so if you were to react to anything, it would be the Coturri. hmm

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author
That's weird because the frey's wine you reacted to should have been gluten free because it's aged on oak, not in. And the stuff you don't react to says it's aged in oak barrels, so if you were to react to anything, it would be the Coturri. hmm

I called Coturri and they said they only use, used oak barrels and they re-shave them and do not add any new wheat paste of any kind. It is weird, beats me. I wish I knew. I did not call Freys yet. All the best, Mike

Nantzie Collaborator
Nantzie
Posted

Have you thought about changing the varietal? I started getting really bad reactions to cabernet. It was almost like a gluten reaction, but not quite. When I changed to merlot, I stopped having problems, even with the same wineries I was having problems with from the cab. I have a friend who has the opposite problem, can't drink merlot, but has no problems with cabs. If that doesn't work, maybe try changing from red to white or vice versa.

I'm not as sensitive as you are (I've read your posts in the super sensitive threads), but it's worth a shot.. :)

Nancy

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author
Have you thought about changing the varietal? I started getting really bad reactions to cabernet. It was almost like a gluten reaction, but not quite. When I changed to merlot, I stopped having problems, even with the same wineries I was having problems with from the cab. I have a friend who has the opposite problem, can't drink merlot, but has no problems with cabs. If that doesn't work, maybe try changing from red to white or vice versa.

I'm not as sensitive as you are (I've read your posts in the super sensitive threads), but it's worth a shot.. :)

Nancy

Hey thanks for the options, I think I have narrowed it down to the yeast that Frey is using. I have no issues with any type of wine from Coutturi. All of the wines they have are naturally fermented. Frey adds yeast for fermentation. I know I have no problem with yeast, I have been tested. In my opinion, they are using a yeast that may be from a source that contaminated it. I am learning that a lot of yeast is a by-product of the whiskey making industry and whiskey is made usually from wheat, rye or barley. Also, when transporting yeast (it is alive) a feed stock of cracked wheat is added to the yeast it in order to keep it alive........It is never ending. I am not saying this is what for sure is going on with this situation. I am looking into it. All the best, Mike

Lisa Mentor
Lisa
Posted
Hey thanks for the options, I think I have narrowed it down to the yeast that Frey is using. I have no issues with any type of wine from Couturi. All of the wines they have are naturally fermented. Frey adds yeast for fermentation. I know I have no problem with yeast, I have been tested. In my opinion, they are using a yeast that may be from a source that contaminated it. I am learning that a lot of yeast is a by-product of the whiskey making industry and whiskey is made usually from wheat, rye or barley. Also, when transporting yeast (it is alive) a feed stock of cracked wheat is added to the yeast it in order to keep it alive........It is never ending. I am not saying this is what for sure is going on with this situation. I am looking into it. All the best, Mike

Mike,

I'm not trying to be a pain, but(t)..

Before everyone freaks out because they think all wine is contaminated, would you kindly list your sources for this information. I also noted that you said "In my opinion", in the first part of your statement.

It's common practice here to research and post support documentation when making speculative statements.

Thanks :)

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author
Mike,

I'm not trying to be a pain, but(t)..

Before everyone freaks out because they think all wine is contaminated, would you kindly list your sources for this information. I also noted that you said "In my opinion", in the first part of your statement.

It's common practice here to research and post support documentation when making speculative statements.

Thanks :)

Sure, give me a little time to put it together and I will post it. Mike

Lisa Mentor
Lisa
Posted
Sure, give me a little time to put it together and I will post it. Mike

;):)

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author

Mike,

I'm not trying to be a pain, but(t)..

Before everyone freaks out because they think all wine is contaminated, would you kindly list your sources for this information. I also noted that you said "In my opinion", in the first part of your statement.

It's common practice here to research and post support documentation when making speculative statements.

Thanks :)

I will post more later, this is a start.....All the best, Mike

Open Original Shared Link

Yeast is normally already present on the grapes, often visible as a powdery appearance of the grapes. The fermentation can be done with this natural yeast, but since this can give unpredictable results depending on the exact types of yeast that are present, cultured yeast is often added to the must. One of the main problems with the use of wild ferments is the failure for the fermentation to go to completion, that is some sugar remains unfermented. This can make the wine sweet when a dry wine is desired.Frequently wild ferments lead to the production of unpleasant acetic acid (vinegar) production as a by product.

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Yeast for feeding can be obtained as a by-product or it can be the primary object of manufacture.

Open Original Shared Link

Commercial yeast is a by-product of the whisky distillers. If you are a yeast producer your by-product will be methylated spirits.

Lisa Mentor
Lisa
Posted

Open Original Shared Link

Commercial yeast is a by-product of the whisky distillers. If you are a yeast producer your by-product will be methylated spirits.

dilettantesteph Collaborator
dilettantesteph
Posted

Momma Goose:

****With all this mombo-jumbo, yeast should not be an issue for Celiacs.*****

That seems disrespectful to me.

Lisa Mentor
Lisa
Posted

<sigh>

I was referring to the several links that were provided by me. I am truly sorry about your misinterpretation!

Jestgar Rising Star
Jestgar
Posted
Momma Goose:

****With all this mombo-jumbo, yeast should not be an issue for Celiacs.*****

That seems disrespectful to me.

Or it could seem like someone was trying to keep things light. It all depends on how you choose to interpret it.

Mike M Rookie
Mike M
Posted
  • Author
Open Original Shared Link

Commercial yeast is a by-product of the whisky distillers. If you are a yeast producer your by-product will be methylated spirits.

--------------------------------------------------------------

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Names for methylated spirits around the world

In the UK, Australia, and New Zealand, metho is called methylated spirits. In the US and Canada its called denatured alcohol, methyl hydrate*, or fondue fuel. In Europe, it may be called spirits, brennspirits (Germany), alcool a bruler (France), or alcool etilico denaturato (Italy). It is generally available in hardware stores, supermarkets, service stations, and camping/outdoors stores. Methylated spirits may not be available in some countries due to alcohol restrictions (e.g. Pakistan).

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Open Original Shared Link

****With all this mombo-jumbo, yeast should not be an issue for Celiacs.*****

In addition:

https://www.celiac.com/articles/222/1/Glute...ages/Page1.html

I am not understanding your post. The yeast that is left over from the distillers is skimmed off and sold by them to be used again (this is what the word byproduct means). I put up the bread link to show that yeast (in this case, the bread making yeast) being a byproduct of the distilling industry) the other yeast link shows there is a connection to fermentation yeast being derived (at times) from a byproduct source.

In my opinion we will not find a scientific study of why yeast may contain gluten from cross contamination (wheat, barely, rye). Due to my extra sensitivity, I am all but certain, I found the link. If one of us is having a gluten reaction, well, it is probably gluten causing the reaction. Without a doubt, the one thing I have learned from this adventure is gluten is in places unimaginable.

While we are on this subject, this is also why some of us may be reacting to certain vinegars. Yeast is also added to vinegar base to produce a very fast fermention with a known outcome of product (do some research into this if you are not sure I am telling you the truth). I get glutened from regular vinegar, but not NATURALLY Fermented vinegar, Garden of Eden has an apple cider vinegar that is naturally fermented. The stakes are extremely high for us with regards to not knowing this kind of information. We need to let our fellow Celiac/Gluten intolerant friends know this kind of information. Daily exposure to hidden gluten is not good in my opinion. Lives are depending on it. All the best, Mike

caek-is-a-lie Explorer
caek-is-a-lie
Posted

I agree, Mike. But as for wine, I have not had much problem with it, even the cheap foreign ones. I am very sensitive to gluten but I just haven't had much problem. I have been trying to stick to American wines since I found out about the wheat paste thing, but honestly how does one find out how the wine is made without taking a tour? E-mailing the companies doesn't seem to produce answers and forget about their websites. So, because I do love wine, I just have to find a brand that looks good and take my chances. So far so good, I think. :) Should we have a section somewhere here where we post all the brands we've tried that seem ok? Or is that too risky since we don't have hard evidence that they're safe? Just an idea, anyway :)

Jestgar Rising Star
Jestgar
Posted

I, too, drink a lot of (cheap) wine and have never had a problem.

I think there are other things I'd focus my concerns on, and happily consume my wine while I'm doing it.

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