Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[ArtGirl]

This may be a better link to iridology.

Open Original Shared Link

Thoughts?

I am finding more sites indicating it's a hoax than sites indicating it really works.

Kristina

I went to a woman in our town who does this. Pretty much everything she said turned out not to be what was really wrong with me.

[ShayFL]

The eyes are the widows to the "soul" not the "body".....LOL In seriousness, I've no doubt that every organ/tissue/cell can tell us something about what is going on inside of us healthwise. What I doubt is if these people can tell that. With many things I just go by my instincts. Detox foot baths....bunk....so I never tried it. Homeopathy...maybe...so I tried it. Iridiology....bunk....have not tried it. Acupuncture.....makes sense...so I tried it.

[kkcarlton]

ShayFL, ArtGirl - thank you for the replies. I am more and more skeptic about this. Maybe I'll just fork out the money for the stool test to see if there ARE parasites or if there IS bacterial overgrowth. If not then I'll know that something else is going on.

Kristina

[kkcarlton]

Does anybody if nitrates are allowed? I know they are not healthy but from an SCD standpoint, are they ok?

I have sugar free bacon but it has sodium phospahtes, sodium erythobate, and sodium nitrite.

[DMarie]

Kristina - it is sooooo frustrating! I simply do not understand a doctor dismissing bloating like that. It is hard when you do not feel well - and trying to track down answers cost $$$$ and alot of time. I truly hope that you are able to find a good doctor in Tennessee - the first time around!

[kkcarlton]

Kristina - it is sooooo frustrating! I simply do not understand a doctor dismissing bloating like that. It is hard when you do not feel well - and trying to track down answers cost $$$$ and alot of time. I truly hope that you are able to find a good doctor in Tennessee - the first time around!

Hi Dawn,

Thanks for the encouragement and yes, it IS frustrating. I think if a patient came to me complaining of 28 days non-stop abdominal distention I would show a little more compassion. I am still angry about the comment she made that 'fluid retention doesn't work that way'.

At this point I am wondering if I should skip the stool test and the iridology and just try a cleanse. I don't know what to do.

I make it through the day by not thinking about what's going on with me. If I really think about all my symptoms and that I have NO idea where they are coming from and how many foods I now react to I get scared. So basically I am living in denial.

Kristina

[DMarie]

Kristina - I don't know if this helps or not - but just in case - I'll share my current thoughts (which are subject to change on a day to day basis!).

I have been mulling over my choices as to what direction to take. My husband is laid off effective December 31st - so needless to say - we are watching every penny like a hawk. I have wondered about testing for parasites, wondered about seeing a digestive specialist (who is not on any insurance plans and who will surely cost an arm and a leg).

Then a few things I read kind of clicked together. Shay had written something awhile back about how the bodies cells renew themselves every so many years. I had also read some things Shay posted in a different thread (about children and candida). Actually, Rachel posted some very helpful items there as well. This led me to the following post (which I made). https://www.celiac.com/gluten-free/index.ph...50356&st=15 (to see Rachels and Shays comments)

-------------I am so glad I stumbled across these posts! Thank you Shay and Rachel (and others) for sharing what you have learned. It is sometimes very easy on these forums to feel very depressed about the possibly of healing. I have found myself thinking alot over the past several days about the body and wondering if it is really all that fragile such that you almost have to kill yourself to heal. That just didn't fit with other knowledge - which seems to say just the opposite. The body can heal, it is what it wants to do. I have found myself wondering if the digestive system is out of whack (leaky gut, parasites, etc) - is it really that hard to heal? Can healing still occur on something like SCD if it isn't followed exactly to a T - if these are the health issues - is the body really that fragile that any infraction will set it back more?

I mean, if the bacteria and parasites are so overwhelming - wouldn't we be about dead as they consume our bodies???

I tend toward a perfectionisitic attitude - so when I am trying something - I tend to gravitate toward trying to do it to perfection. I am trying to let that go - to listen to my body. I totally agree that what is right for one person is not necessarily someone else's answer.

Perhaps a hindrance sometimes to healing is getting bogged down in the details of the problems and loosing hope! Shay - you had said something in another post (another thread) about the bodies cells renew themselves every so many years. I have pondered that as I try to fit together the pieces. It gives me hope! I think the body wants to be healthy - it just needs our support with the right foods, attitude, etc (and it is up to each of us to figure out what the right foods are, etc).------------

This has helped me to feel more hopeful about things, and not so much like I am doomed because I can't get this test or that procedure to "unravel" what is wrong. My thinking - good foods are essential to nourish the body, as well as vitamins/minerals to support the immune system etc (I am on a B complex and Vitamin C and D - not sure what else I might need at this point). I also started taking the Neem - because it makes sense to me that at some point we all have parasites, etc - and cleanses or anti-fungals periodically are probably a good thing. I also started some Acidophilous as well. I plan on rotating anti-fungals for awhile. After the first of the year I will do some type of cleanse.

The fact that the body has an amazing ability to heal itself gives me hope - especially if I am doing good things to nurture my body, and trying to adjust my attitude as well.

All of that said - there can be serious things going on when there is that kind of bloating involved (such as ovarian cancer, as Shay mentioned - not to be an alarmist). I think that would necessitate a visit to some sort of doctor to make sure nothing like that is going on - if you don't see any changes.

I, too, am trying to get away from always thinking about what is going on, focusing on every symptom I have (because I tend to do that). Sometimes when I just relax and let myself get totally involved in something else - I find that certain things aren't bothering me so much (like the almost constant flow of mucous I have that aggravates the bejebbers out of me!!). Which makes me think that some alterations in my thinking and focus are a good and beneficial thing!

[AliB]

Dawn, you have to bear in mind that not all bacteria are life-threatening. But some are extremely debilitating.

If you have shot adrenals and a poor immune system you can bet your bottom dollar that they are running themselves ragged trying desperately to keep the 'wolves from the door'.

Some of the parasites and micro-organisms are, well, parasitic. They don't want to kill their host - just live off it. But whilst they are living off you, they are draining your body of vital resources.

Candida is, under normal circumstances, a happy little chappie chomping away on carbs in the background. Out of control it is a voracious beast devouring and inflaming and causing all sorts of mayhem.

The body is amazingly resilient. A strong immune system and backup would in ideal circumstances fight them all off, but without the digestive good flora support - it, and we, are at the mercy of the pathogens.

That is why we need to do the best for our bodies. The best diet. The best herbs and supplements. The best sleep. The best exercise. The best sun and fresh air. We owe it to ourselves. It is our human right. We can't have the best in this system as it is, but we can try.

Without that, the pathogens can become life-threatening.

[AliB]

I find that certain things aren't bothering me so much (like the almost constant flow of mucous I have that aggravates the bejebbers out of me!!). Which makes me think that some alterations in my thinking and focus are a good and beneficial thing!

The mucous is there because something is aggravating your body. It may take a while to settle down but the important thing is to try to learn to read your body. Try and figure out what it is that is triggering it.

Even though I have been dairy free for nearly a year and on the SCD for 9 months I still wake up in the morning with mucous and catarrgh. I know that a lot of that is to do with the bugs living in my mouth and throat (and probably in my lungs as well) and only time on the diet and plenty of good antibacterial and antifungal herbs will help. I am sure my body is still detoxing too which will also contribute to it.

I am determined to get the upper hand eventually, however long it takes.

I am bombarding myself at the moment with different stuff to try and get my body cleared out.

[kkcarlton]

Dawn and AliB - thanks for posting. Great points and I will look at the link you provided later Dawn. It's interesting that you bring up candida since I just read a report on it from Dr. Mercola. You can see it here Open Original Shared Link. One of the symptoms he lists with systemic candida is 'tremendous fluid retention to try to dilute the toxins'. I had never read that before and I think that's a lot of my problem.

Before I had a distended stomach every 12 days for 4 days and then 8 good days. That was hormonal imbalance in my opinion. But my weight was ok and I could deal with those 4 days and didn't think so much about the other symptoms like fatigue, swollen eye lids when I get up, multiple food intolerances, horrible headache and backache when I use regular shampoo, and more. But now that I have gained weight, I can't seem to lose it, and in addition I have abdominal distention 24/7 it's really hard not to think about it because it's so "there" all the time. Does that make sense?

But if I look at this year it's all coming together. I have cheated a lot with non-gluten grains, bacon, BBQ, etc. If I am not digesting di- and polysaccharides than that would be a problem. In January I went off my hormone cream, in May I crashed and had to quit my job, I went on Cortef briefly, then off the Cortef and on a different hormone cream, that helped great at first then I felt miserable becuase the doc gave me way too much testosterone, so I went off of it, that made my pain come back so I went on Cortef again, then back on a different dosed hormone cream, tapered off the Cortef but did it too quickly, got back on and tapered off more slowly. I have now been off the Cortef for 13 days. Between the bacterial overgrowth, candida, and the on again off again with the progesterone cream and Cortef it's no wonder my body is messed up and trying to re-balance. Now I am using probiotics daily so more rebalancing. Maybe I just need to be more patient and stop spending money on tests and doctors. But when it comes to my weight unfortunately I have a hard time being patient.

So I agree on some level - if you give your body good food, good supplements, rest, relaxation you should heal even if you are not doing it perfectly. But it takes a long time. The one concern I have is whether I am eating foods I am intolerant to or not and if I am, can I still heal. Since my most frequent reaction to foods is abdominal distention and I have it 24/7 it's almost impossible to tell.

There is a Yahoo group for people with candida overgrowth. The program is pretty strict - no grains, sugars, etc. allowed much like the SCD, but also no fruit, honey, yogurt or cheese allowed. The moderator of the group, Bee, claims that it will feed candida and other bacteria. Her opinion is that not just the type of carbs but also the quantity of carbs/sugars play a role in healing. You can look at it here if anybody is interested:

Open Original Shared Link

Kristina

[mftnchn]

Ali, thanks for checking about the dedicated thread. So what if we start some topics and put SCD as the first item in the topic? Like one for people just starting to research the diet, and one for newbies just starting? Our recipe thread is still out there, right?

[DMarie]

Kristina - did you do any testing for your cortisol levels before starting the cortef? What made you decide to go off? Since you are now off the cortef, you could ultimately do a cortisol panel to see where your adrenals are at (I did a saliva panel - 4 samples - to test it throughout the day).

I am sure I have some type of parasite or candida or both. I did the candida diet once, very strict with it. While it helped - it was not the answer to all for me. Adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism were a big part of this. I was a part of a support forum at that time for candida. And, everything was representative of candida. All symptoms. I cannot go there again with that diet and thought process. I just don't have the energy. While candida may have been (and might be) part of my problem - there were other things going on that needed to be addressed to bring me to where I am today (which is so much better than where I was 2 years ago - even with the current issues I have). I am good with watching my diet, following about 95% or better the SCD diet - which means focusing on mono-sacharides, and rotating anti-fungals along with taking probiotics. And time. And getting in some more exercise. And letting time (and my body) work it out.

It would seem you need a multi-pronged approach. I am thinking it is important to test your hormone levels (cortisol and progesterone/estrogen/DHEA). Also thyroid (I think you mentioned you take Armour). If your adrenals are shot and you are low on other hormones (or they are out of whack) - that makes it hard on your body to function. I don't know about you - but the cortef gave me back my life!!! I was just giving up in the middle of the day and going to bed. I had such trouble thinking. I would look at my work (I was working from home at the time) and have trouble remembering why I did something the way I did it - or I couldn't come up with a solution. Emotions were all over the place!!! I was RUN by my emotions. It is a totally different life having my adrenals supported - and my thyroid stabilized (I kept going hypo then hyper - yo-yo'ing all over the place with my Armour doses - now I have been stable for some time). If I had listened more to my body along the way and followed more of a rotation diet, and really focused on upping the veggie/fruit content - I might not have developed the sensitivities I have today (I was never a big veggie eater - it is still a struggle - and I still only like a handful - cauliflower-broccoli-green beans-salads-carrots-zuchinni-squash-cabbage-mushrooms-cooked onions and peppers in stuff). How I wish I loved veggies! I am trying though. When I started out on all of this some 7 or more years ago - I only liked corn!! And salad-carrots and I think mushrooms.

Along with supporting all of your hormonal levels, diet would be important (which you already have a plan for that). It would seem that cleanses and anti-fungals plus probiotics would enhance the rest.

I am not sure of the possible symptoms with going off cortef too soon if your body really needs it (adrenal fatigue). Can that cause the water retention?

I re-read the Mercola article. I had read about the candida-cancer thing before. Fascinating! Too bad if one did end up with cancer it would be impossible to find someone to consider this as part of the treatment (and maybe it would end up being the only treatment - if what they are saying is correct).

In the link I posted (the other thread on candida) - Rachel detailed her experience with the candida diet and other thoughts. Everyone is so different - it is definitely not a one size fits all approach. Guess that is where it becomes important that we learn how to hear what our body is telling us.

And for me - the mucous issue - for the past several days I have had periods of time without it overwhelming me. It is still intermixed with a fair amount of flow. But I sure do enjoy the times when I am comfortable - like now. I think this is the one symptom that will take longer to get rid of - and will likely happen as my digestion improves and my body heals.

[DMarie]

Does anybody if nitrates are allowed? I know they are not healthy but from an SCD standpoint, are they ok?

I have sugar free bacon but it has sodium phospahtes, sodium erythobate, and sodium nitrite.

Somehow, I bet not. Here is a great link for legal/illegal foods on the SCD diet: Open Original Shared Link

Melatonin is on the list - illegal. I didn't see nitrates listed there - will have to keep poking around to find it.

What kind of bacon did you find that was sugar free? I can find bacon without nitrates and other preservatives - but it has turbinado sugar in it. What I really wish is that I could find a legal ham - but I don't think it exists.

[AliB]

Ali, thanks for checking about the dedicated thread. So what if we start some topics and put SCD as the first item in the topic? Like one for people just starting to research the diet, and one for newbies just starting? Our recipe thread is still out there, right?

Yes Sherry, that's a good idea - the only problem with that of course, is that if they are not posted on regularly they drop off the end of the list and are not visible unless someone is actually looking for them. I just wish there was some easier way to link to them.

Scott replied on the Tech section to say that he can't add any more sections - he gets complaints that there are too many already! He also felt that the SCD is just one of many treatments. I wonder if we could get him to add something to the Section Title or description? Any ideas?

[AliB]

There is a Yahoo group for people with candida overgrowth. The program is pretty strict - no grains, sugars, etc. allowed much like the SCD, but also no fruit, honey, yogurt or cheese allowed. The moderator of the group, Bee, claims that it will feed candida and other bacteria. Her opinion is that not just the type of carbs but also the quantity of carbs/sugars play a role in healing. You can look at it here if anybody is interested:

Open Original Shared Link

Kristina

I don't know if she is the same person Kristina, but there is also a website by someone called Bee that deals with Candida and is very interesting.

Open Original Shared Link

[AliB]

I kind of wonder about the 'one size doesn't fit all' approach. Yes, it is true that we are all different, but at the end of the day our bodies should work pretty much the same if in the same state. We all have the same internal organs and processes.

What may well make the difference is the kinds of and quantity of different bacteria we have. Even within families who live closely and share bacteria there will be a different dynamic in the gut flora.

My Mum had gut dysbiosis as did my Dad, but they did not share the same genes. Mum was Diabetic, Dad became Diabetic later in life. What they would have shared is bacteria - but not necessarily in the same quantity or in the same mix or in the same place or.....or.......

My Mum did not have a weight problem, Dad did a bit, I do very much, my husband doesn't, my daughter doesn't, my son doesn't. If it was genetic then there would be an obvious string of obesity running through, but if it is down to the bacterial mix, what they are and where they are, then it can actually end up creating quite random effects in some. The bacteria can produce linked problems in families, like say, diabetes or Celiac, but depending on how they affect the individual they can also produce individual effects.

When my Mum became Diabetic in her teens, there was no family history, no genetic link. But what if it happened because she was infected somehow by a particular bacteria that targeted her Pancreas? I don't know if she was given antibiotics as a child. It is quite possible - she wasn't born until 1935 and Penicillin was a new and exciting weapon in the 'war against bacterial infections'.

I think that far too much emphasis is put on to Genetics, and not nearly enough on to Bacteria.

Makes sense to me anyway...........

[kkcarlton]

Dawn

[rinne]

I think there is a serious connection between the number of people with digestive issues and their exposure to antibiotics, which I think then leads to a crisis and depending on your genetics it may lead to arthritis, diabetes.......

I agree with you.

I think once we have tipped into illness it is no longer enough to avoid certain foods in order to recover, we have to "renutrify" our bodies and deal with all the opportunistic bacteria that have taken over as a result of the good bacteria being killed by the antibiotics.

[DMarie]

Kristina - I believe it is recommended that you are off cortef a minimum of 2 weeks before testing. I know you were only on it a few days before then being off it for 3 or 4 days. It might be worth checking again after being off of it for weeks. Perhaps something like Isocort might be enough to add some support.

I have found with the Cortef that I have to take mine in 5 separate doses over the day (I take a small amount before bedtime - helps with sleep). I tried dosing it in 3 doses as my doc said was fine (which goes against the usual recommended 4 doses a day, with tapering doses) - but found that too much Cortef at one time makes me feel hyper as well. Almost too good, like I want to crawl out of my skin. I need to take it as my body uses it.

I have been on Cortef for 2 years now. I am a little concerned that I might not ever be able to come off it. But the alternative - I am about half convinced that I was on my way to Addison's Disease - we just intervened before it got that bad. I don't think I would be where I am at today had we not supported my adrenals. What is most frustrating is that I didn't have a doctor at the time who knew alot about this - so did not have a cortisol stim test done. I have been able to go down by 5 mg so far - and am feeling okay - stable. I am going to hold for at least a week and then try to drop the next 2.5 mg. I decided that I am not running a race here - slow and steady giving my body time to adjust would be best.

It sounds like you have a plan of action to follow with what you can do now. It it good that you can step back from work some over Christmas - try to minimize as much stress as you can.

[DMarie]

Got a question about when to take probiotics. I thought that should be with food. The Neem also says to take with food. Can those be taken at the same time - or will the Neem kill off good as well as bad? If they cannot be taken at the same time - do I just try to take the probiotic with a snack? Of course, I have to space all of that from the psyllium that I am taking - which greatly helps with C.

I started the Neem on Sunday. I don't remember if I took it once or twice (I think once). I took it 2x Monday and Tuesday. Monday I felt nauseous for a bit after. I also had a pretty good headache by the time I got to Monday night. A little nauseous Tuesday after the morning dose and a little bit today (but I am also trying to get sick - my boss has a cold - and I woke up feeling like my throat was hurting and my nose was stopped up. ) On Monday I also had some weirdness in my vision in the middle of the day. Sort of like around the edges of my vision there were clear prisms. Maybe more like having floaters - but the floaters were surrounded by prisms (clear). Very odd - didn't last long, hasn't happened again.

I have had periods of time where there is minimal to no mucous flow. This is interspersed with times of flowing mucous. This could be the Neem helping - or the probiotic - or could be the diet - or maybe a combo of all that I am doing. I was comfortable several hours last night, and not too bad this morning.

I am taking the Neem 2x a day. The instructions only say 2x a day (it was the brand Shay mentioned I believe). I seem to remember Shay writing that she took it once a day, then 2x a day and so on. Should it ever go above the 2x a day?

Meanwhile, since I feel like I am getting sick (I don't remember when I last got sick - I don't catch other people's bugs easily) - I am taking Echinacea/Goldenseal drops and have Vitamin C that I have started. I find that if I feel like I am coming down with something, the drops usually head it off at the pass. I am hopeful that will happen this time - but the head doesn't feel so good.

[AliB]

Kristina, and anyone else that is interested - take some time to really investigate Bee's Candida site - it is very, very interesting.

She talks a lot of sense and has similar viewpoints as me about things like antibiotics. Although her diet is not quite the same as the SCD it is similar and also cuts out grains, starches and dairy.

I have come across it before but will likely add in some of her protocols.

Just out of interest I have started a new SCD thread for testimonials - it would be good to see how different ones have benefitted from the diet. Positive experiences are always encouraging and help keep the motivation going.

[ShayFL]

I only ever took 1 pill a day of the Neem I bought. 2 might be too much.

[AliB]

That's an interesting concept and another one I hadn't thought about before.

Bee is saying on her website that the Medical Profession confuses symptoms with diseases. The fact that my body cannot use insulin is not a disease, it is a symptom of something not working properly. All symptoms are evidence of malfunctions, but they are not diseases, they are still symptoms.

The symptom is the body's way of trying to off-load the problem and by suppressing the symptom we are only making the problem worse.

Bit like a cold - if you have a runny nose and a sore throat it is a symptom of a cold. A cold is not a disease - it is the body's way of off-loading not only the virus that triggered the symptoms, but an outlet for toxins too. A person with a strong immune system and a body that is good at expelling toxins will rarely, if ever, 'catch' a cold. I know people like that - and how I envy them...........

[kkcarlton]

Bee has some interesting articles and thoughts. Overall it's a good program. What I don't like is that she will tell you that HER program is THE only way to heal from any illness and you have to follow it 100% including the daily egg drink, the electrolyte drink and supplements. Healing will only begin if you take all her supps and follow her diet. Any time people say that their program is THE only one that will heal you I am skeptical.

The other thing I am undecided on is her take on food intolerances and even true allergies. She claims they are all healing reactions and I am not sure I agree with that. Tell a Mom whose child goes into anaphalactic shock when eating eggs that it's "just" a healing reaction and she'll tell you to go you know where. Bee has an article about this on her site as well as an article about leaky gut and that the leaky gut theory cannot be true. Interesting stuff - just not sure I agree with all of it.

Other things she suggests are good like dry skin brushing, avoiding grains, the electrolyte drink (water, fresh lemon juice, and celtic sea salt), HCl with meals, etc. She does claim you should not take digestive enzymes if you are taking HCl - not sure why.

I had an interesting visit with my chiropractor today. My neck, back, and even my right ankle were out of alignment. I asked about ileocecal valve syndrome and he said all 3 of my valves (not sure what the others are) were stuck open and he adjusted them. He checked me for bacteria, candida, viruses, and parasites and nothing came up. All this was done with muscle testing which is another thing I am unsure about. I did show hormonal imbalance and I happened to have a syringe with my progesterone cream with me and also testosterone cream. He checked it and said the testosterone at 0.5 mg is fine but I need to use the progesterone 3 times a day the next 5 days and then go down to 2 times a day. The syringe had 2 ml in it with 100 mg progesterone each and I am not sure if he meant 3 times the amount in the syringe or 3 times the dose of 100 mg. If he meant what is in the syringe that would be 600 mg a day over the next 5 days and then 400 mg a day going forward. That seems high so I was thinking of doing half of that. I had already thought about just staying at 200 mg a day for a while since that

[DMarie]

Bee has some interesting articles and thoughts. Overall it's a good program. What I don't like is that she will tell you that HER program is THE only way to heal from any illness and you have to follow it 100% including the daily egg drink, the electrolyte drink and supplements. Healing will only begin if you take all her supps and follow her diet. Any time people say that their program is THE only one that will heal you I am skeptical.

The other thing I am undecided on is her take on food intolerances and even true allergies. She claims they are all healing reactions and I am not sure I agree with that. Tell a Mom whose child goes into anaphalactic shock when eating eggs that it's "just" a healing reaction and she'll tell you to go you know where. Bee has an article about this on her site as well as an article about leaky gut and that the leaky gut theory cannot be true. Interesting stuff - just not sure I agree with all of it.

Other things she suggests are good like dry skin brushing, avoiding grains, the electrolyte drink (water, fresh lemon juice, and celtic sea salt), HCl with meals, etc. She does claim you should not take digestive enzymes if you are taking HCl - not sure why.

You know, I had heard about Bee before as well - and was told the same thing - on her forum it is her way or the highway. I am with you - anything that is all or nothing like that - I am skeptical. Especially the thought that healing will only begin if you do steps A, B and C with absolutely no variance (and those steps are of course her steps). That is my problem with alot of Candida info - walk these steps exactly or else it will get immediately much worse and impossible to heal (my interpretation). Then people are all upset because they ate an apple or something like that. I am not trying to minimize problems with bacteria or candida - because I know it can cause many problems - but I just can't have such an all or nothing attitude about it such that I took before. And - there might be something else going on that needs to be addressed first (or at the same time). Such as my adrenals - big changes after those were supported.

She does have some very interesting things to read and ponder though.

I have never been sure about muscle testing either. I have always kind of wondered about that. I just really didn't see how it could work - but some people swear by it.