Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[GermanMia]

Hi Juli,

I just read the last posts and found you mentioning that suddenly you can't have foods you used to be able to eat like apples and lima beans. Did you ever look into fructose intolerance? Apples and beans are a desaster if someone is fructose intolerant. I just had that problem: After one year gluten free suddenly everything got worse instead of better. The worst thing was that I started to feel weak and tired all the time so that I nearly couldn't do my work any more. Then I started SCD, and suddenly I had something I thought was a very bad die off with D and feeling like hell - but it was in fact the fructose from all the carrots I ate which made me completely sick! Luckily my gastroenterologist had the idea to let me do breath tests for lactose and fructose and I turned out to be fructose intolerant. When I looked up the foods which don't agree with fructose intolerant people I found that it was just about everything I can't tolerate like apples, pears, carrots, beans, lentils, soy, corn and - sugar. Now I restricted myself to corn salad, spinach, some zucchini, avocado, papaya, some grapefruit and slowly I can see some improvement.

Seemingly it is not unusual that people with undiagnosed celiac may develope fructose intolerance, too, over the years (or other intolerances). Chances are good that this kind of acquired intolerance goes away if you consequently avoid these things.

Well, I'm sorry to say that I've got a migraine today, and I am so lethargic and tired I could fall asleep here at work. This definitely feels like some sort of die-off or withdrawal reaction, yuck. But still no intestinal troubles so I'm counting my blessings.

As for the health-breastfeeding link, I found a couple of articles:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

From the last link:

It's definitely very interesting reading! I have never had kids, but my good friend has a baby, and she is very pro-breastfeeding. It was actually she who gave me a lot of information about it (since she knows I'm very concerned with staying healthy and eating good foods.)

[rinne]

Hi everyone,

...Rinne, i get joint pain in my hands too which usually seems to be my first indication i'm not digesting something well - then i'll get it in my left big toe....go figure.

Michelle, I'll pay more attention to it, thanks for mentioning that.

I read somewhere (here?) that the probios need something to eat, which is why you need to add a tablespoon of honey to the coconut milk in order to ferment it. It does come out thin, but tastes good.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll use it.

[rinne]

.....me zucchini, avocado, papaya, some grapefruit and slowly I can see some improvement.

Seemingly it is not unusual that people with undiagnosed celiac may develope fructose intolerance, too, over the years (or other intolerances). Chances are good that this kind of acquired intolerance goes away if you consequently avoid these things.

Thanks for bringing this up, I have been feeling very achy the last few days and I have been eating more carrots. Last week I was eating lots of apples. Mmmmmm....

[julirama723]

Pele--perhaps that's why my mom did not breastfeed...though my fiance is almost the same age as I am (only 4 months younger) and he was breastfed, though he was the only one of his siblings who was. It's one of those weird questions I've never felt comfortable asking my mother! I was born in '81--not sure when the no-breastfeeding mentality was in practice?

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GermanMia--thanks for that info! You know, I had been pondering if I have a fructose intolerance. I'm really hoping I don't, because I love those foods (well I can live without sugar, but you know what I mean)...yet with the way things were going, I'm pretty sure I DO have fructose intolerance. Soy and corn are by far the worst offenders.

So perhaps my problem is mainly a fructose intolerance (I mean, plus dairy and gluten intolerance) and not candida? That is a promising thought. I really hope this something that will resolve with careful diet changes. I would like to be able to eat some of these foods again (like carrots, apples, some beans, though I think I could care less about corn and soy) in moderation.

I haven't had any problems with raw vs. cooked foods, just certain foods (no matter the preparation) that I eat cause symptoms.

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I am feeling a little better today. I went home yesterday, took a hot shower, drank yogi detox tea, lots of water, and ate some eggs, sausage, and peppers. I still have a mild, residual headache, but I think I'll be able to function today! (Yesterday was a complete waste here at work, I should have just gone home sick.)

I am slightly paranoid that my current "safe" foods will become something I can't tolerate, since that's been the recent trend. I used to be able to eat EVERYTHING. Heck, people used to say I had an iron stomach, nothing upset it! So it's kind of scary in the past year or so to have everything come crashing down, food-wise. What is the likelihood that this kind of thing could happen? I'm worried about eggs, I know that's another common intolerance.

I know I'm supposed to rotate foods (in a manner of speaking) or at least not eat things daily for many days in a row. I'm trying to do a rotation on vegetables, so I eat a certain veggie every other day or every 2 days. For example, today I'm eating sugar snap peas, bell peppers, and I did bring carrots but now upon reading Mia's post, I think I'll skip those! Tonight for dinner I'll probably have mashed cauliflower and pumpkin. Tomorrow I'll probably have string beans, cucumber, salad. The next day I'll probably have avocado, salsa (tomato, onion, jalapeno, cilantro, garlic) and bell peppers, etc. Same thing with meats, though I am not a huge fan of beef, so I've been alternating between pork and chicken.

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I hope everyone is doing well today!

[AliB]

I just have this feeling that we jolly along, perhaps with a few niggly health issues here and there but generally ok, until suddenly, as you say, everything comes crashing down.

The annoying health problems are undoubtedly signals telling us that something is not right, but unfortunately we either don't understand them or we just carry on regardless trying to ignore them until the body finally throws in the towel.

The problems is that because everyone seems to have some degree of health issues of some kind or another, we just assume that it is normal. We are coming at it from the wrong angle - the sick ones are not normal - to be healthy is what should be normal. But no one reads the signs, so they are sick.

Whilst there are some variables we cannot change, like pollution and adaptation of food, there is a lot we can. We also have to fight against the 'lemming' instinct. You are branded as peculiar or weird if you don't eat like everyone else. As Jason Vale says in his book - people often try to get you to join them because then they don't feel so guilty when they indulge. Being Gluten Intolerant is actually a protection because it gives you an added excuse not to follow the crowd.

i get joint pain in my hands too which usually seems to be my first indication i'm not digesting something well - then i'll get it in my left big toe....go figure.

It wasn't until you mentioned that that I realised the awful gouty 'needle-piercing' pains I used to get in my toes has gone! I don't remember the last time I had that - and there was I thinking it was to do with the diabetes! That's another one to add to my list of 100% improvement!

It's not that surprising really that you get it in your toes because that's where the nerves from the back end up - before gluten-free when my colon was in huge stress I would get all sorts of weird pains and itches etc. in my feet and toes (not to mention chronic RLS).

That is why Reflexology in the feet can be such a good indicator. When my Liver off-loaded a load of crud (I had this exceedingly weird trickling sensation in my tubes down my right side behind my ribs!) about 10 days after going GFDF I instantly got an intense throbbing pain in my foot that equated with the Liver on the Reflexology chart and which was very sore for a couple of days - as the pain in my foot receded, so did the soreness in my side. Amazing what the body can tell us - when we are looking for it!

[GermanMia]

Juli,

I'm pretty sure that this kind of acquired fructose intolerance will go away again. I never liked sweet things but eat tons of fruit and veggies - without ever having trouble until recently. My naturopath told me that in fact it's the starches which do most of the harm. Maldigestion of starches causes bacterial overgrowth which causes malabsorption of fructose etc. So if you really break the circel, i. e. starve all bad bacteria which cause malabsorption, and avoid fructose for some time, you should tolerate apples, carrots, beans etc. again.

I started the fructose avoiding diet last november and still don't eat more than half a papaya or one grapefruit per day plus half an avocado, lots of corn salad, one small zucchini or a portion of spinach. The gastroenterologist told me to stick to this diet for at least threee months and then, if all symptoms have gone, slowly add more veggies first and then, maybe after six months, more fruit. I'm still fiddling because I can't figure out if all that I eat is good for me. There is no more bloating and sometimes I seem to have a bit more energy, but not much.

Above all, my pms which had seemed to become better, has gotten worse than ever instead and my cycle started becoming irregular again But then I raised my intake of probiotics, maybe it's just kind of first reaction?

Maybe I should again do a couple of days with only chicken soup (without carrots), boiled chicken, steamed fish, some yoghurt and corn sald - no cheese, no eggs and no papaya or avocado...

Mia

[julirama723]

Ali--interesting about the pain. Perhaps it's unrelated (but how could it not be? It's all happening inside the same body) but yesterday and today still I have this painful ache in my left shoulderblade area. Last night it was downright excruciating and it wasn't lessened with massage at all. Today it still hurts quite a bit. I wonder if it has to do with any sort of die-off or withdrawal or digestion issues.

Mia--that really is a relief that this might abate or go away. It's not like I'm dying because I can't eat fruits (though I am sad, I love fruit) but sometimes it's nice to startle the palate with something different.

Is the maldigestion of sugars and starches a bacteria problem, yeast problem, or both?

[AliB]

My personal feeling is that microbes of some kind or other is behind the poor digestion somewhere along the line. Whether it is yeasts or some other microbe/s or parasites science is yet to find out, but as so many appear to have issues with yeasts/Candida I would be surprised if it wasn't the guilty party.

Yeasts do digest sugars - its what they do, and they produce by-products as a natural progression of that digestion, but perhaps whilst in small quantities that digestion and its by-products may be beneficial, once the yeasts start to proliferate and it ends up with them doing the bulk of the digesting then the quantity of by-products could then potentially become toxic and end up contributing to the problem as well as causing other health issues.

The higher the level of yeasts in the body the more external signs we will tend to get, like athlete's foot, dandruff, the charmingly named 'jock itch' and other fungal skin eruptions, fungal nail bed infections, thrush, etc. Its presence in the mouth and top end of the digestive tract can manifest as a white coating on the tongue, white patches in the mouth or even just good old halitosis.

It is only by completely overhauling the diet in the long term that we can hope to get both the better of it and to get the digestion restored. The gut flora has to be changed and that won't happen whilst we are still feeding the pathogens, neither would it change overnight. Immune system recovery also has to take place - as that improves it is then in a more powerful position to help the good bacteria gradually get the better of the bad. That is likely why it can take up to 3 or 4 years before most people really feel totally better on the diet. Sorting it all out takes time.

I think it may have been one of Roy Jamron's articles that was saying that scientists have discovered that Celiacs (and I am sure the same would apply whether you are a diagnosed Celiac or 'only' gluten intolerant) appear to have a completely different gut flora to 'normal' people. That would make an awful lot of sense and may well be why they become gluten intolerant in the first place.

[rinne]

8. Depression and Anxiety

A very important mood chemical (called serotonin) is largely made in a healthy digestive system. Any damage to your stomach by an H. pylori infection will lead to a shortage of this important chemical.

Open Original Shared Link

As to what comes first I think this may be the chicken and egg question. Many people have H.pylori in their gut but don't get ulcers, is it possible stress and anxiety brought on by a diet that is toxic to us then triggers the H.pylori which then leads to a shortage of serotonin and so goes the circle.

Just thinking about pain.

I suspect I am predisposed to ulcers, my father had them and was treated with antibiotics, he has since recovered. I read a study show family links. I have treated them with various herbs and at times feel I have them taken care of and then something stressful happens and immediately I have pain in my gut.

I made an appointment for a massage that focuses on the stomach, it is a new technique and I have questions but I also think that I am holding a lot of residual pain and tension and am hoping that it will help.

Sorry, I guess I wandered off on my own tangent.

[AliB]

I have just posted a gorgeous recipe for Raspberry Friands, and Gentleheart, although that contains eggs, I have also added a couple of recipes that don't that you may find useful.

[chatycady]

Hello all;

I want to thank you for all the advice for my sister and her thyroid problems. She is going to a compounding pharmacist and they are working with her to find medication that will work. She tried armour but it has dextrose in it, which she reacts to. - Hypoglycemia real bad. Each day gets worse for her. So then she had the pharmacist make one, but it contained whey, which caused worse symptoms than the dextrose.

She is going to work on this for one month and then if things don't improve she is going to MAYO to figure this out. It's been years and she's not getting any better. Although she is fairly new to the SCDiet she has been gluten free for about 2 years. I will pass on any suggestions you may have for her.

She also has adrenal problems and therefore doesn't digest protein very well. She can eat chicken and fish, but pork, eggs, and beef are out for now. And no she can't eat the yogurt yet.

Thanks so much

Chaty

[GermanMia]

Is the maldigestion of sugars and starches a bacteria problem, yeast problem, or both?

Depends, I think. First thing is that the flora has to be in disorder for some reason, so that there is a nice milieu for yeast. That is, the candida starts as a consequence of a dysbalance, and then of course it increases the problems... Most people do have candida issues following the flora damage but not necessarily. Might depend on what you take in. I never eat lots of things which could cultivate candida - no sweets at all, very few starches - and I have no candida at all.

In fact all sugars are differently digested. Glucose is digested in the small intestine while fructose has to be carried to the liver. There are two carrier proteins which do that job, one that carries the fructose into the gut mucosa and a second one which carries it from the mucosa to the liver. Fructose intolerance - or better malabsorption - means that you lack those carriers - or they don't work - so that the fructose passes the small intestine and reaches the large intestine where it is digested by bacteria. This causes gas which you should not have too often, and if this happens too often, the flora changes. Bacteria fed by those undigested sugars start to overgrow the other bacteria so that you start having a dysbalance. If you have too much gas it might affect the ileocecal valve so that bacteria from the large intestine can go up to the small intestine which normally has only few bacteria. That way you can develope an overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine which disables the mucosa of the small intestine so that the whole digestive process is disturbed and *more* undigested sugars (or proteins and fats) pass into the large intestine... So with every step it gets worse until one day the whole thing collapses. If you continued eating lots of sugars and starches it is very likely that you also developed candida. But the candida will never go away if you don't repair the flora damage before.

[mftnchn]

Excellent description, Mia. I'd only add that celiac causes villi damage, and that means lowered or absent production of certain carb digesting enzymes, lactase, and a couple of others that I forget the names of. Without the enzymes, the carbs are not broken down and then the cascade effect in the lower intestine.

[julirama723]

I typed a HUMONGOUS reply this morning, and something happened with internet explorer and I lost the post! So I shall try once more...

Ali--Hrmmm, I must beef up my immune system...is a selective IgA deficiency going to complicate things for me? I just found out I've got this, which would explain the proilferation of colds and other nasties I always seem to catch. (IgA is the antibody which is produced in mucosal surfaces, i.e. the gastrointestinal, urinary and reproductive systems and my body doesn't produce basically ANY of these antibodies.)

Mia--EXCELLENT post, thank you! I understand this much more clearly now. One thing I noticed in reading about this on various websites is that sometimes fructose can "piggyback" a ride with glucose to the intestine lining. I think basically they were promoting foods that had an equal ratio of fructose to glucose, rather than foods that had predominantly more fructose. I'm assuming they're not saying to eat sugar as a condiment. Though Mary Poppins *did* say a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down...

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Looking back, I know now that when I was obese, I had a problem with candida. I was lethargic, irritable, CRAVED sugar, had dry/itchy skin, dandruff in the winter, occasional mouth sores, and even got a nasty yeast infection at one point (thankfully I'd not had one before or since.) Of course, I felt awful all of the time (physically, emotionally and mentally), and I assumed that was normal.

In the past couple years, I had to really focus on what I was eating and I was always on the lookout for bad reactions to food. Interestingly enough, apart from a few specific foods, I noticed no GI/blood sugar problems with any food groups. Of course, when I reintroduced grains, my weightloss basically stopped, until I was maintaining, then slowly gaining, then gaining quickly. That should have been a sign right there!

[DMarie]

Quit worrying. Tomatoes are canned the same way as fruit--processed in boiling water. If the BBQ sauce was hot when you put it in the jars--even better. If you added honey and/or vinegar, better yet as these act as preservatives. I make homemade chutney by cooking down peaches or apples, adding honey, spices and maybe vinegar. I just put it in sterilized canning jars and stick it in the fridge, where it will keep for weeks, but I eat it first.

Dawn, try pressing down on the top of the flat lids of your canned sauce. If it moves up and down, then it isn't sealed well, and you do need to refrigerate and use up more quickly. If it is solid and doesn't move up and down, you have a good seal and the long water bath would have killed all the bugs adequately, so you should be fine putting it on the shelf in the pantry. Congratulations!

Thanks Pele and Sherry! Somehow I missed these posts - not sure how. The jars are sealed well, no movement. The sauce turned out okay. But - I thought that 3 onions for my 5 lbs of tomatoes seemed like alot - so only added 1-1/2 onions. Could have used all of the onion. Also, I would like to figure out how to get a more smokey flavor. Maybe some more of my spices, like smoked paprika.

[julirama723]

DMarie--chipotle gives food that smokey/BBQ taste. Chipotle peppers are smoked and dried jalapenos. You can either buy the dried peppers whole or ground into a powder. I use McCormack's brand of the seasoning, I put it in all my Mexican dishes!

[GermanMia]

Sherry, thanks for the addition! Yes, in people with celiac or gluten intolerance this can be the starting point.

Juli, the piggyback thing is right, if you have a fructose malabsorption you should in any case avoid foods with a higher content of fructose than glucose. That would especially be apples and pears. Very liquid honey contains more fructose than glucose, too, because fructose is more hygroscopic than glucose, i. e. it absorbs more liquid. Also some people are able to deal better with fructose when composed with glucose as a disaccharide, i. e. sucrose. Most fruits, veggies, nuts, legumes contain glucose and fructose as monosaccharides plus sucrose as disaccharide. Also you have to look out for sugar alcohols like sorbitol, xylitol and mannitol which sometimes have even worse effects that fructose itself. Chewing gum and toothpaste mostly contain sorbitol which may cause BIG trouble, apricots, too, and some fungi are high in mannitol.

During the first months of a fructose elimination diet you have to regard the total fructose content of foods, i. e. fructose as monosaccharide and disaccharide. The less fructose the better.

Mia

[Gentleheart]

What do you all do for toothpaste? I have always used natural ones and don't care to have the fluoride. I looked at labels today and every brand is obviously sweetened with something, all illegal on SCD it looks like. Is plain soda the only thing left? Thanks!

[GermanMia]

Gentleheart, here in Germany we have a blend called Weleda, it's natural cosmetic - everything from soap, body lotion to deodorant, and they have a salt toothpaste which only contains salt and some herbal extracts. It's quite expensive - more than double what normal toothpaste costs, but you don't need much of it so it lasts very long. Look at www.weleda.com

Fluoride is a poison anyway, so better avoid it...

[Gentleheart]

Gentleheart, here in Germany we have a blend called Weleda, it's natural cosmetic - everything from soap, body lotion to deodorant, and they have a salt toothpaste which only contains salt and some herbal extracts. It's quite expensive - more than double what normal toothpaste costs, but you don't need much of it so it lasts very long. Look at www.weleda.com

Fluoride is a poison anyway, so better avoid it...

Thanks so much. I am acquainted with Weleda. I went to their website and looked at their toothpaste selection. The salt one has guar gum and alcohol in it. The others also contain alcohol and xanthan gum. Since corn is another issue for me and alcohol can be a gluten issue unless we are assured of it's origins and guar is not SCD legal, they probably won't work, I'm afraid.

Nobody said this was going to be easy, but I am honestly having a lot of trouble using this diet with all the additional restrictions. About the time something qualifies as gluten free, it isn't SCD legal. About the time it satisfies SCD, it doesn't quite make it for gluten free since I also seem to be extra sensitive about ppm. Then my additional food sensitivities take away the majority of great recipes that are being shared and in cookbooks. I am really going to have to figure out a creative and satisfying menu for myself because this week's diet ended up monotonous, way too high in fruit and nuts and not at all balanced. I know this can be done, but as of now I'm doing a lot of just not eating at all because it's easier. I need to buckle down and really plan this thing.

[fig girl]

Thanks so much. I am acquainted with Weleda. I went to their website and looked at their toothpaste selection. The salt one has guar gum and alcohol in it. The others also contain alcohol and xanthan gum. Since corn is another issue for me and alcohol can be a gluten issue unless we are assured of it's origins and guar is not SCD legal, they probably won't work, I'm afraid.

Nobody said this was going to be easy, but I am honestly having a lot of trouble using this diet with all the additional restrictions. About the time something qualifies as gluten free, it isn't SCD legal. About the time it satisfies SCD, it doesn't quite make it for gluten free since I also seem to be extra sensitive about ppm. Then my additional food sensitivities take away the majority of great recipes that are being shared and in cookbooks. I am really going to have to figure out a creative and satisfying menu for myself because this week's diet ended up monotonous, way too high in fruit and nuts and not at all balanced. I know this can be done, but as of now I'm doing a lot of just not eating at all because it's easier. I need to buckle down and really plan this thing.

Hi Gentleheart,

I've been using Crest regular or mint flouride protection along with baking soda (i just pour a little baking soda in my hand and wet it with a little water to make a paste and dip my toothbrush in it). I probably should just use the baking soda but when i use the Crest i'm just careful not to swallow any of it and rinse my mouth out really well afterwards.

This is tough in the beginning especially when there's so little you can tolerate and it takes a lot of time to research and prepare foods but it does get easier, i promise. You may have already found these but on pecanbread.com there's a list of egg free baked goods recipes under stage 3 and I've tried Anna's muffins, both brownies, almond flour bread and peanut butter cookies and they're yummy - you could replace the almond flour with hazelnut or any nut flour i would think. The peanut butter cookies you could substitute with another nut butter since peanut butter is for later in the diet. I've also tried the tortilla wrap listed in stage 3 using gelatin in place of the egg and i tried it as a pancake and it didn't work but baked it on oiled parchment paper on a toaster oven tray and it turned out good. I wanted mine crispy so after baking the amount of time i turned the oven down to 170 and left in there for about 40 - 60 min. i think and it was nice and crispy.

Here's some egg replacer info i've got written down and keep handy:

1/2 cup applesauce or pearsauce = 2 eggs

1/4 cup applesauce or pearsauce = 1 egg

1 banana = 1 egg

here's some good info. i found on gelatin:

Open Original Shared Link

I eat yogurt and bananas for dessert since i'm not tolerating nuts right now. I like to make the banana nut pudding on pecanbread.com sometimes which is mashing up some banana, add nut butter then add yogurt - i haven't been adding any nut butter and it's still very yummy but recently i added a little sun butter and it's really good.

I've made a pancake or bread with avocado and chicken but can't seem to find the recipe - if i find it i'll post it. Hang in there! It does get better!

Michelle

[julirama723]

Mia--once again, thanks for the great info. Oh lord, don't even get me started on sugar alcohols. I get HORRIBLE GI symptoms from foods that have sugar alcohols. I remember baking these peanut butter cookies with xylitol and being so excited, because xylitol is a "natural" sweeter derived from birch bark or corn, but it is low GI so wouldn't cause blood sugar problems. Well geez, what a mistake. I looked about 8 months pregnant after eating a couple of those cookies. I think it was a double-whammy of corn + sugar alcohol. (Other sugar alcohols affect me to, but not nearly as bad as xylitol.)

[Ms Jan]

Hi Gentleheart,

I recently switched from Colgate sensitive to a more natural toothpaste, Tom's Natural antiplaque with propolis & myrrh (found it in Martin's). It doesn't contain fluoride, but I just saw that it contains xylitol, so I don't know if it woud work for you. Anyhow, you can check their other products on www.tomsofmaine.com .

But if you're super sensitive right now, I'd probably go with the baking soda, and maybe rinse my mouth in diluted pepper mint oil afterwards. In general I do have great results with drinking a glass of water containing 3-6 drops of Japanese peppermint oil, it settles my stomach and often help clear my head aches. But I don't know if it might be too strong for you at the moment.

As to the diet, since I'm very sensitive right now myself, I'm basically living on vegetable smoothies and soups which can be endlessly varied (and thickened with avocado at the end), salads, nuts and chicken soup. not too much variety, but it keeps me full - and healthy ...

hope you get better,

Jan

[mftnchn]

Hello, Jan. Hope you are feeling better on this diet. Welcome to our marathon thread.

[Ms Jan]

Hello, Jan. Hope you are feeling better on this diet. Welcome to our marathon thread.

Thank you !

Yes, this sure is a long and interesting thread. Have tried to read up on it: lots of interesting info and advice to pick up on ...

And the SCD diet is surely doing wonders for me