Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[AliB]

Hi Ali,

I have seen that page and am curious about "the muffins" she asks you to introduce...WHICH MUFFINS!? I spend probably half my day yesterday trying to figure out WHICH muffins? its alittle vague. There are a few muffin recipes but they all include nut flour...which only on day 3, I wouldnt think I would be ready for???

Well im not 100% sure about the dairy-- but my dairy intake was very limited when the C started, and then i went vegan for an entire year and had no changes in my C. I was also vegan for the first 2 months of being gluten-free and then did a diary test...where I added dairy in large quantities for 2 weeks, then went 100% off for 3 weeks and all of my C symptoms remained exactly the same. So this leads me to beleive that its not the dairy...any thoughts? Should I try testing it differently?

If anyone has any thoughts or information about "the muffins" that would be great!

Thanks Guys!

Hi Whitney - I would imagine she is talking about the basic muffins which are made with either walnut, almond, pecan or hazelnut flour - the recipe for which and variations is in the BTVC book (p 97-99), although there are plenty of nut muffin recipes out there - I posted a banana one on the recipe thread. I didn't cope with the nuts as well as I would hope back at the beginning but it was only a few weeks before I could. I have noticed though that even now I can't cope with them straight from the oven. They are ok when cold - some people find them easier to digest when frozen and defrosted.

You may be right with the dairy but it is just as well to avoid it at least for a while until your gut is better healed. Perhaps because your gut is damaged and something is already causing the C, any reaction from the dairy would not show up at present anyway.

[AliB]

As far as the cholesterol issue is concerned (and forgive me if I have already posted about this - I really can't keep up with myself sometimes! ). but I watched a TV program a year or so ago about 2 young Docs (twins) who went to different places to try out different diets and investigate them.

This one prog I watched had the bros go to the eastern seaboard of Siberia (brrr). They spent 2 weeks with the 'natives' and one followed a 'normal' diet buying western foods from the little store there and the other followed the traditional diet (putrid rotten walrus flesh, blubber, fish, whale meat and all!). They both started with cholesterol around 4.2. At the end the one on the Western diet stayed the same, the other twins' had gone down to 2.8.

All the fishermen had cholesterol around 2.6, 2.8 except for the 'Boss', whose level was 6. They couldn't figure out why until they went for a meal with him and saw the table laden with stodge his wife had cooked. He also was very fond of tinned hot dogs. Conundrum solved. So the fat wasn't to blame but the carbs were. S'good enough fer me!

Not only that but they were all fit as a fiddle, people rarely got sick (undoubtedly unless they ate loads of Western food!) and generally the only reasons people died was through accident or old age.

[AliB]

My husband has been doing the SCD for 2 weeks now and has noticed a huge difference. He has neuropathy and his pain level went from a 10 down to a 1! He's going to an allergist tomorrow and we're hoping they can do a blood test for food intoleranes. He has lost 8 pounds and he really doesn't want to lose any more. I know some people have been on this diet for a long time. Does your weight keep dropping? Any ideas on what he can do to keep the weight from dropping?

Thanks!

That's fantastic. My husbands' Fibro is better when I can keep him on SCD food (not often) although being gluten-free has helped too.

Daft isn't it - I have been on it for the last 10 months and haven't dropped an ounce yet others lose it without even trying!

Having a bit more fat as suggested may help - just upping the calorie content generally also may help. Nut muffins/cakes/cookies etc. may help to boost the calorie content too.

This comment on the following blog might be of a little encouragement - and the recipe looks good too -

Open Original Shared Link

Similar comment - and similar recipe!

Open Original Shared Link

Not sure that the Allergist would pick up intolerances - they are not the same thing. An allergy usually sets off some kind of histamine reaction, but an intolerance doesn't so whether anything would be picked up is doubtful. It would be interesting to see what is found though.

The thing is that by following the SCD for some time and facilitating proper healing most people eventually find that both their allergies and their intolerances gradually fade. Whilst some health issues seem to remedy fairly quickly, others take considerably longer to resolve - we don't usually get sick overnight, so can't expect to recover overnight either.

[Gentleheart]

I could really use some opinions.

I do not have many gastro symptoms to speak of. I can't guarantee that nothing is going on inside, but I don't particularly feel it outside at least. My symptoms are more neurological and so delayed that it is nearly impossible to do elimination experiments or tell which specific food did what to me when. So I fly blind on this most of the time.

I have been faithfully doing the SCD now for almost a month. No cheating. But I find it difficult because I can't have the dairy or almonds or eggs. Without them, it's a pretty monotonous diet. But IF I was feeling great, that would still be OK. I just can't handle that many nuts and am left with mostly meat, some vegetables and some fruit. Too much fruit doesn't seem good for me either. So I'm painting myself into an awfully small box. I have said before that I don't feel like I'm eating very balanced right now.

Unfortunately, I don't especially feel any different. I know Elaine says this doesn't work for everyone. Educated guess. How long should a person without symptoms stay on this diet to try to heal up a leaky gut in your opinion? Am I giving up too soon? Elaline's book talks primarily about people with D and gears a lot of her advice on when the D clears up. I don't have any of that to go by. I'm contemplating going back to a very modest, more traditional gluten free diet. For me it's more balanced and tolerable since I have so many other food intolerances. I think the premise of this diet is solid and it is great how many people are having wonderful results with this. I'm just not sure it's working for me. What do you think?

[AliB]

Are you still getting neuro symptoms even though you are on the SCD?

Without knowing what your symptoms would usually be it is difficult to understand what if anything, is likely to help. Elaine spoke about digestive issues because that was her only field of expertise - up to the time she died she had not had too much experience of the diets' benefit in other areas apart from an odd one here and there. Since then though people have been discovering the diets' benefit in many other areas and as knowledge grows that information will become more widespread.

Have you tried reintroducing the eggs? I think it took me about 6 weeks to be able to cope with them and then they had to be really well cooked, not remotely runny, although I am ok with that now.

It can be limiting to start with but then when you react to a lot of foods you are limited in what you can eat anyway - at least with the SCD limitation you have some hope that eventually your gut will heal enough for you to be able to start adding more foods. I never thought 10 months ago that I would have the choices that I have now.

People without obvious gastro symptoms are worse off in many ways because they have no indication of the damage that is being done. We all assume that 'everyone' gets gas and bloating, or D or C at various times but if they do then you can pretty much guarantee that they are reacting to something.

How many of us have friends or relatives who, when questioned would admit that bread often makes them gassy and bloated? those like you who don't show those signs though are not getting the signals that the rest of us are - its like 'silent' Celiac.

I would say can you just try and hang in there for a while longer? Another month or two may well start to show a difference. If your gut is damaged in a certain area that is preventing absorption of certain nutrients, then it can take a while for it to start to heal. Gastric symptoms often are some of the first to clear, but if you don't get those then it may seem that nothing is happening - it may just be the fact that perhaps a few more weeks down the line you suddenly find that you can now tolerate another fruit or two, or eggs, or almonds that will give you the best indication that things are moving.

I think that whilst the tips of the villi can start to heal fairly quickly, its the deep in the gut wall stuff like Leaky Gut that will take the longest. It is only by changing the diet and depriving the pathogens of their food source that we can get the upper hand. The gut flora will change and that can take some time to happen. It is not until that is working that the gut can really start to heal.

I didn't feel that it was really benefitting me until around 6 months into the diet. I still have a way to go but each month that goes by is better than the last. I thought that the awful ache in my back each time I ate was never going to go, but I rarely get it now. I suddenly realised the other day that I don't get the clammy feeling around 11pm each evening any more. The palpitations have gone. The Candida is gradually getting under control - I have gone from all my life always having to wash my hair every other day to only needing to wash it once or twice a week at most. Fantastic.

It's been slow but even slow progress is better than no progress...........

[Gentleheart]

Thanks, AliB. I really appreciate your quick reply.

After being ill for years and having consulted with many doctors, I finally took several lab tests on my own, including Enterolab, that all said the same thing. Gluten, casein, eggs and soy - all major proteins. I also have both genes and severe malabsorption. Not realizing how it all worked, I went ahead and eliminated them all on my own for nearly a year before finding out that I should have done a blood test first. So I did the blood test and it was negative of course. Common story I've told before.

So even though I haven't resolved my health issues yet, I have no reason to really doubt that I am gluten sensitive and maybe even celiac. All the tests and retests (except the blood test) agreed 100%. But from that time until now I have not been able to find a single medical doctor who is the least bit knowledgeable on this issue who will help me troubleshoot this. Negative blood test = no service. And the few open minded ones are all booked up and not taking any more out of state clients. Believe me, I've tried.

Subsequently, here I am trying to solve this myself. I tried the SCD because I thought maybe I just couldn't handle any grains or starches at all. That's a great theory and still might be the deal. But honestly, this highly restricted diet is really hard for me and so far I just don't notice any difference to make all the sacrifice worth it.

I don't try the foods I've actually tested intolerant to in tests because it seems to me that it would be counterproductive. I retested for eggs just a few months ago and it still showed up as a definite intolerance. Other results also indicated that I'm still getting gluten somewhere. That's a REAL puzzle if you knew how careful I am. That's why I'm also investigating the super sensitive possibility. Some of the testing facilities have said that they do consider these other protein type intolerances to be permanent, much like gluten. That may be open to debate. But I don't see how I can get better by purposely adding back foods that I specifically test allergic to. But again. I'm on my own here and I really don't know.

You're right. People with D must certainly be uncomfortable. And I really don't wish for that. But at least they KNOW when they have been glutened. That must REALLY be helpful in managing a gluten free diet.

I have no doubt that the SCD works. I have no doubt that many gluten people are also super sensitive. And I have no doubt that some of us can't handle any grains. I just don't know for sure where I fit in. So I'm jumping from one thing to another.

I will probably take your advice and stick this out for awhile longer. I have eaten a ton of gluten, eggs and dairy in my day. I can only imagine how much damage has been done. Maybe it will just take a looooong time to fix. Thanks for the help.

[pele]

pele and Mia--I tried explaining that to her, that eggs won't raise her cholesterol (and I used myself as an example) that it's really carbs that are the root of most evils. I wish Taubes's book had been out at this point, so I'd had something "mainstream" to quote! She of course poo-poo'ed me, and claimed that eating her Trix yogurt and toast each morning kept her healthy. (I felt my blood sugar go haywire just listening to her talk.)

Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food might straighten her out. It is not about gluten, but about the correlation between the rise of processed food and the rise of chronic disease, and discusses big lies about healthy carbs and unhealthy fats. It is very readable and informative.

I know, I know, I'm repeating myself.

[pele]

Gentleheart

Are you eating lentils, split peas, kidney beans, honey, hazelnuts, cashews, peanuts and pecans? These things can make a difference if you are only eating meat and veggies with a little fruit.

If you go off the diet, I hope you will stay off processed foods of any type. I think that is one of the keys to success.

[Gentleheart]

Gentleheart

Are you eating lentils, split peas, kidney beans, honey, hazelnuts, cashews, peanuts and pecans? These things can make a difference if you are only eating meat and veggies with a little fruit.

If you go off the diet, I hope you will stay off processed foods of any type. I think that is one of the keys to success.

Not to worry. I've been a health food nut for my entire adult life. I never eat processed foods.

I am allergic to 4 out of the 8 foods you mentioned. But I am eating the rest.

[rinne]

Hi wschmucks and dmarie,

I wasn't sure what the muffins were either until i think Sherry had posted about the nut muffins helping w/constipation. Dawn - eating a good bit of veggies helps me also and since I've added a salad it has helped. Yesterday i started drinking more water and using crohnsboy.com's protocol (thanks Rinne for posting this!) and it has helped me. I had a good BM yesterday and today. He mentions taking fish oil - does anyone take this? I'm thinking it may help with my bm's and inflammation. GI Pro Health has some that says scd legal although it says the vitamin e is from soy. I used to take flax seed oil before scd but may try the fish oil.

I'll have to look for that non-nut bread recipe as I'm not tolerating any nuts right now.

Michelle

Michelle, I am glad that you are finding Jay's site helpful. Fish oil is on my list of "to take supplements". I did a little more research on enemas and did a yogurt one with my home made goat yogurt and I thought it helped.

C has always been my issue and a week into the diet it stopped being one. It has not gone away entirely, if I eat too much fruit or cheese it comes back but only for a day. Eating salad for supper helps a lot too.

I am eating meat, fish, eggs, veggies except for the brassicas (cauliflower just doesn't sit well and so I'm avoiding cabbage, broccoli...) a little fruit, goat yogurt and nuts. All SCD legal. My feeling is that I want to give this diet the maximum opportunity to work and so other than a little extra coffee I am very strict.

I think psyllium is a product from hell, the few times I have taken it I have felt like I swallowed crushed glass. I heard someone else with colitis describe it just that way, I was so glad to find out I wasn't the only one who has had that experience with it. I looked up psyllium seed and found these articless:

Open Original Shared Link

Open Original Shared Link

It has now been discovered that the seed coat material from psyllium seeds, in general, is high in specific protein fractions which contain allergens. As noted above, it is common to have discrete pieces of the seed coat material mixed in with coarsely ground psyllium seed husk. The present invention provides a novel, convenient and simple method for treating coarsely ground psyllium seed husk to decrease the allergenicity of the seed husk. The process of the present invention directly treats psyllium seed husk compositions to produce a psyllium seed husk which retains its food quality characteristics and yet has reduced allergenicity. SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

The use of it seems to be based on it being a traditional plant used to treat constipation, traditionally though it would not have been ground up as finely as it is, which caused the death of the nurse in the above link, nor would it have been used daily. I found one study that said 70% of seniors in retirement facilities receive it daily, suddenly it is a billion dollar industry!

......I think the premise of this diet is solid and it is great how many people are having wonderful results with this. I'm just not sure it's working for me. What do you think?

What do you want to eat?

I find that I am eating what I want to eat, there is a box of the best quality healthy chocolate in my cupboard, it has been there for the past three months and it is no temptation at all. This is a unique experience for me. When I really want something sweet I make myself an apple tart even though I know I am pushing it slightly with the apple, overall I have the feeling my body is happy with this diet.

I know it is hard to feel so limited and not see changes, I was like that for a long time but for me I had pain which never seemed to go away only at times was slightly more bearable, generally when I was in a horizontal position.

I don't know your circumstances so it is hard for me to say more, that is why I asked what do you want to eat because I think our cravings can arise out of deficiencies.

[julirama723]

I don't take fish oil, but I've taken flax oil for a couple of years. (Sometimes I do go through spurts where I forget my supplements, bad girl!) I love the results--shiny hair, soft skin, youthful glow. I know flax seed/meal is illegal, any particular reason for this? Is the oil illegal too?

[DMarie]

Thanks for responding! Do you think that even though you have used the psyllium you are still benefiting from the diet? I dont want to do the wrong thing and ruin my chances of healing, but I also dont want to spend several month feeling awful (as i do right now...not having had a BM).

Also, I found a recepie on pecan bread for non-nut bread. I think i wll make that with beats-- which she recommended in teh constipation section too. Since I have not responded well too high fiberous foods (like psyllium) I want to try to keep the nuts out.

Let me know how you think you've progressed with keeping the Psyllium in your routine.

Thanks again!

The beet brownies are supposed to be good for constipation (I am thinking that is what you are referring to - but then again - I think those had some almond meal in them). I wanted to try them - but haven't found any fresh beets in the store. I have no idea when they are in season. I did find them once but they didn't look good.

I don't know whether the psyllium is causing a problem or not. But the way I reasoned it - if I don't take it, I will not go. Which is worse?? So I allow it. I am on several medications and again - I take them and I don't get worried about getting them compounded, etc. I need them and it stresses me thinking of all the running around, searching, etc (and added cost) to try to get my medications compounded. Plus, I have had compounded thyroid medication before and it does not work like the Armour.

I know that I have had some benefit from this diet. I don't have as much gas/bloating as I did before, though by the end of every day I am usually bloated. But eliminating the gas, by and large, is huge because it was getting so embarrasing. I have a huge mucus problem (drainage down the back of my throat). That has improved some, but not near what I thought it might (I was hoping for total elimination). One thing I would say to remember is that pecanbread is geared toward doing this diet for autistic children, who seem to react to the slightest thing different. I think that might make a difference on the sensitivity thing.

For me - I choose to stick with SCD because I think it is a better way to eat and I have seen some improvement. But I don't think it is the total answer for me. I don't believe it is going to fix all my problems. But it is a good start. I have on occasion gone slightly off, but feel best staying as true to form as I can.

I think that for the first 30 days you should stay as true as you can to the diet - so you are giving it a fair shake. After that you can then probably make a better determination about where you are. For me it is a starting point. I have an upcoming appt with a doctor who practices integrated medicine (she uses traditional medicine, homeopathy and herbs). I figure a doctor who has added homeopathy to her traditional practice can look outside the box. For me it is a matter of tweaking what I have started. I think that ultimately I will be able to add the occasional gluten free item - but that it will be the exception and not the rule.

At any rate, I am now rambling so I will go ahead and post this!

[rinne]

I went looking for the beet brownie recipe and found this Open Original Shared Link for a C protocol that looks helpful.

[wschmucks]

Thanks for all the help guys. I made bread last night with a recipe from pecan bread that is "nut free" and substituted Beets for the carrotts. It didnt come out fluffy like it was supose to (probably because of the additional liquid in beets. I ate it this morning....not my new favorite thing-- but hopefully it will help. I also added the stewed prune juice with the OJ, and also was told MiraLax IS legal. So I am going to try some experimenting with the Miralax switching with my illegal medication....hopefully I can ween off.

The nut flour makes me nervous, as fiber has seemed to just make my C worse. Good point though about Pecan Bread and sensetivities in Autstic children.

I'll let you all know how it goes :-)

[AliB]

We're all very quiet on the thread at the moment - is anybody there???

[gadgetgirl]

I'm here. Just not a lot to say at the moment. I've been pretty compliant with SCD since the beginning of the year and feel a lot better. I just posted on another thread (about cold hands & feet) about how much warmer I feel since ditching the grains. Oh, and I've lost almost 10 pounds without feeling hungry!

Lent starts Wednesday and for 40 days I will be 100% compliant! I have issues with completely giving up chocolate, but know I can do it for at least 40 days!

[AliB]

I'm here. Just not a lot to say at the moment. I've been pretty compliant with SCD since the beginning of the year and feel a lot better. I just posted on another thread (about cold hands & feet) about how much warmer I feel since ditching the grains. Oh, and I've lost almost 10 pounds without feeling hungry!

Lent starts Wednesday and for 40 days I will be 100% compliant! I have issues with completely giving up chocolate, but know I can do it for at least 40 days!

Well done you! Did you need to lose the 10 pounds? Wish I could! I'm down by 2 but I have been piggy this evening so will probably have put it back on tomorrow!

I had a problem with hot feet - I used to have to stick them out of the bed all night, but they have been fine since I have been on the SCD! I don't miss that or the restless legs, or the dandruff, or the Candida, or the muscle pains, or the having to wash my hair every other day, or the palpitations, or the blood pressure tablets, or the stomach pain, or the bloating, or the gas, or the Irritable Bowel and having-to-live-in-the-bathroom, or the..........or the..........or the..........

[rinne]

I'm around but haven't got a lot to say.

I do start working part time tomorrow, my catering business, and that will keep me busy. I am looking forward to it but it will be a challenge secretly preparing the SCD for a group that wouldn't generally think of eating that way! How else can I taste the food I'll be serving them? Actually they will get sandwiches along with soup and a treat, it is just lunch for twelve.

I wish I was seeing faster improvements, the last few days have been a bit rough but that is probably because I pushed it a bit with hot sauce. It is also possible that I am starting the three month flare, I have had bleeding with bowel movements again and that hasn't happened for a while.

I am glad for this thread, it keeps me hanging around here.

[pele]

Lent starts Wednesday and for 40 days I will be 100% compliant! I have issues with completely giving up chocolate, but know I can do it for at least 40 days!

Betcha after about ten days you won't even miss it.

[pele]

We're all very quiet on the thread at the moment - is anybody there???

Guess I hadn't checked in for a couple of days. I've been busy, plus my guts are hurting. I don't know why. Stress? Gluten crumbs on the counter? Something else I ate? The only different thing I had were some jarred green olives with some strange ingredients, nothing that looked like gluten. I wonder if my healing guts are still very sensitive to chemicals and acids. Live and learn. Tomorrow I go grocery shopping. Yay.

[julirama723]

Still here, still feeling good! I'm starting to get my old body back. My clothes haven't fit this well since last April. I have not been courageous enough to add any foods back, I'm sticking with meats, veggies, fats for now. Maybe in a month or so I will try adding a food. I was thinking of adding nuts or nut butter, what do you think?

[DMarie]

Good to hear of the successes others are having.

I had dropped 1 of 2 doses I had been taking of Nexium for several years now. I tried dropping the second dose and thought it was causing me problems, so added it back. But turned out the caprylic acid was the problem.

So, last Friday I dropped the 2nd dose of Nexium (again). And guess what happened with my major mucus problem. It is much reduced. That has held steady through the weekend. I still have some mucus but it has been reduced to at least 50% of what it was.

My speculation on this is that with 2 doses of Nexium, no food was able to be digested because there was no stomach acid, which kicked off the other problems, and the mucus was maybe the bodys way of responding to the problems.

The only problem now is I feel a faint burning, like heartburn, almost all the time, which can't be good. But I DO NOT want to take the Nexium ever again. I am going today to get a good digestive enzyme to hopefully help my body out. I am wondering if my body is so used to having no stomach acid, that even a little makes it feel like burning??

I am not sure what to make of this new development.

[AliB]

Dawn, you could have pathogens in your stomach as the acid has been kept low and possibly not enough to kill them - they would be pretty uncomfortable and not very happy and could well be causing a bit of inflammation down there. You could try the digestive enzymes but start gradually, maybe half a tablet and see how you go - you can always increase it.

My stomach was pretty sore for a while but I took two or three probios at night before laying down and would then lay on my front and I am sure that helped. Generally, unless I have been 'naughty' and eaten stuff I shouldn't my stomach is fine and I can take two digestive enzyme tablets now without any problem.

juli, you could try adding the nuts. Start perhaps with the nut butter - it may be a little more tolerable than the nuts themselves. Try a little and see how you get on.

Pells, sorry you are having probs with your stomach. Might well have been something in the olive mix that your guts don't like very much. At least you know the signs now!

Hi Rinne - catering business? That will be a challenge on gluten-free and SCD!

[DMarie]

Dawn, you could have pathogens in your stomach as the acid has been kept low and possibly not enough to kill them - they would be pretty uncomfortable and not very happy and could well be causing a bit of inflammation down there. You could try the digestive enzymes but start gradually, maybe half a tablet and see how you go - you can always increase it.

Hmmm. I am taking probiotics, and the burning sensation is in my esophagus actually. No stomach pain, no obvious gastro symptoms in the stomach region.

I will go slow with the enzymes. I will probably also get some more Neem and add that back in for a cycle (then oil of oregano, etc - just rotate the anti-fungals around).

[wschmucks]

Hi Everyone,

Im a week in and really struggling on some fronts. This past weekend I had zero energy...walking to my front door was tasking. I started adding zuchinni for a few days then apples and that has given me more energy. The thing I have really been struggling with is my C. My medication i usually take is illegal and is a stimulant lax which I am really trying to get off of. I have been following the constipation protocol (prune juice, beets, vegtables etc) and I added 100mg of Magnesium (which might have made things worse-- gas). I think im going to have to resume my medication for a few days in arow to get "regular again" (i have been on the diet for a week...and have had 1 BM...no joke-- I do not feel good). Then try it try go off again or ease out maybe.

I am also going to start fish oil supplement and probiotics this week. I have found in the past the fish oil to be very soothing when taken in large amounts. Hopefully that will help. I also took the weekend off of all yogurt/ DCC and that didnt help either...trying to cover all my bases.

Let me know if you have any thoughts-- and happy Monday :-)