Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD)

[AliB]

I was thinking about cell renewal. There are different schools of thought on the time it takes for the body to 'renew' itself. Some say up to 7 years, others as long as 15 years.

It seems that it can take about 6 months for some cells to rebuild after damage and at the end of the day, that is what the diet is all about. Giving our bodies the means to rebuild healthy cells rather than damaged ones. And that is why it can take some considerable time for us to really start to see results from the diet.

It is about the body breaking down the damaged cells and giving us good ones in their place.

I posted on a Diabetes Forum about vegetable oils. Some oils are ok for using at high temperature, but others change their structure molecularly. Have you ever tried to get the oil off a chip fryer? It is like hard glue. Vegetable oils can do that to our cells which can make it difficult for hormones and nutrients to get into them.

Frying with saturated oils or olive oil does not cause the same problem so one could quite logically assume that the body can use those oils in a much more beneficial way, regardless of all the stigma attached to saturated fats.

Cholesterol is needed in every cell in the body. The levels of HDL and LDL are dependent on what the body is needing them for. LDL's are carried to the cells, HDL's are carried away from them. Heart disease and/or attacks bear no relation to the levels of cholesterol in the body. What does bear more relevance is the amount of cell damage there is in the body as cholesterol is often used as a 'running' repair and that is when the 'plaque' can build up. The trick is not to give the body foods and substances that can trigger damage.

[Rhoger1]

Hi all, need some advice. I'm into the SCD diet for about 3 weeks now and feeling much better, however I have also added some addition items. No Casein, No Fruit, No Red Meat. I've tried all 3 but get stomach pain that lasts for a few days. Hopefully at some point, i'll be able to re-introduce those?...

I've been reading allot about bacterial overgrowth and how this diet addresses those issues. To get a jump start, I've started a Candida treatment by using Lame Advertisement (natural herbs) consisting of a Pill and liquid combination: Pill Contains: Uva Ursi, Garlic Bulk, Caprylic Acid, Grapfruit Seed Extract, Pau DArco Root Bark, Undecylenic Acid, Barberry Root , Neem Leaf, Olive Leaf, Berberine Sulphate. Liquid contains: Oregano Leaf, Orange Peel, Orefon Frape Root, Pau Darco Root Bark, Cinnamon Bark, Clove Bud and Peppermint Leaf. Treatment is 1 of 2 pills and 10 to 20 drops 2x per day.

I noticed within a day of taking this, loose stools were formed nicely. Unfortunately, I've also started the SCD diet a week before so I'm not sure which is causing it....maybe both.

One symptom I have noticed is stomach pain throughout the two weeks and think the herbs may be too strong. Was wondering if anyone has a good treatment for Candida Yeast or Other Bacterial overgrowth by using Herbs (types used, amounts, duration). Also, how do you know when to stop taking the Herbs and let the SCD diet continue the work.

Regarding the sensitivities, seems like I'm sensitive to just about every food except Chicken, Salmon, Cod, Veggies (SCD legal) and water at this point. Any recommendations? Could I be causing more sensitivites by avoiding foods? Should I keep eating some (i.e Fruit) if I get only minor stomach pains, etc. Tried Cows Milk and Goats Milk yougurts....get stomach pain for 3 days afterwards...

Any help is appreciated.....Thanks..

[AliB]

Hi. Rhoger.

When the gut is really damaged many of us have found that we have issues with a lot of foods. There is no point in trying to keep persevering with them - it won't help, and may actually just keep the damage going.

I know it is frustrating but you just have to try and be glad of the foods you can eat and settle for them - why be in pain when you don't have to?

I would suggest you hold off the Candida herbs for the moment until your body has started to heal somewhat. They are very concentrated and complex and may well be too much for your gut to cope with at present.

Whilst you may need to deal with the Candida at some point, the most important thing at the moment is to get your gut healing and your digestion working better.

The diet does help to get Candida under control anyway over a period of time as removing the bulk of their food source does cut it back and getting the digestion working more efficiently creates a far less welcoming environment for them.

Not everyone can cope with the yogurt to start with so you may be better off with some probiotics instead (Kirkman's seems to be a good make and is SCD compliant).

Just stick at the moment to what your body can cope with and give it a chance to start to recover and then you should find that you can start to reintroduce other foods gradually. Again, you will have to play it by 'ear'. It takes time for the body to heal and the cells to rebuild and you just have to try and be patient.

I could eat no fruit initially and most foods were problematic but gradually, as time went on I was able to bring things in. Eggs were one of the first ones which was great as they are such a staple - that took about 6 - 8 weeks, then I could have bananas. A few weeks later I could have grapes, then apples, then gradually more raw vegetables. Even after a year though some meats were problematic, like pork, lamb and beef, but after I had the big detox, the liver cleanse and started taking some Coconut oil I was able to cope with meat.

Now I am ok with most foods as long as I keep SCD compliant. I still don't cope with carbs, sugars, grains and some dairy, but I don't need it and I don't miss it - there is enough variety in all the other foods to keep me well satisfied.

[pele]

Speaking of healing and renewal, here's a new article from celiac.com that sheds some light on why we are here.

https://www.celiac.com/articles/21835/1/Ful...Diet/Page1.html

[mftnchn]

Welcome Rhoger1!

I'd stay a minimum of 1 month on your safest SCD foods, and make sure they are the easiest to digest. Very well cooked, etc. At that point I'd retry the SCD goat milk yogurt (NOT purchased yogurt), starting with 1/4 teaspoon and building up if you tolerate that little amount. If you can't handle it, then make some fermented veggies that are safe for you. You can read about this on the www.pecanbread.com site. Besides killing Candida, it is essential to get the good guys into your gut. If you can get a probiotic food going, it is very important to healing.

Then very very gradually try foods starting with the ones you are less sensitive to, and making sure they are very easy to digest.

Stool change is quite likely SCD related.

Sensitivities should begin to abate when enough healing occurs. That can take many months, though. For now, you do need to avoid those foods. The increased allergies likely come from the gut damage getting worse or not improving.

[mftnchn]

Very interesting, Sherry, about kryptopyrroluria. It makes me wonder which came first, gluten damage or deficiencies?

Good question. Apparently the condition can be both genetic and/or acquired. So I suppose it could come after gluten damage, though I would think it could have multiple etiologies.

I'm suspicious it is genetic for me. Because my daughter has many of the sx, and one in particular that really caught my eye: she started getting stretch marks as a child. This was the first I had ever read of any explanation for that phenomenon.

One of my friends is on treatment for this and she said there was a natural cleansing process that immediately followed treatment. First, she started naturally excreting heavy metals (could taste them even), then as I recall, it seemed to activate the immune system so there were various symptoms like from infections. Then she did a couple of liver cleanses which helped those symptoms and now feels really well.

So whether genetic or acquired, it looks to me like the treatment is necessary. Since I'm still on my most basic SCD foods, I really am hoping to find additional factors that will help heal my gut.

[Ms Jan]

Speaking of healing and renewal, here's a new article from celiac.com that sheds some light on why we are here.

https://www.celiac.com/articles/21835/1/Ful...Diet/Page1.html

Very interesting article, Pele.

I've been wondering why my healing is so slow, and maybe if something else is wrong with me with my almost weekly downfall to three days of poisoning symptoms due to the tiniest amounts of whatever (SCD legals generally, just stuff I can't digest). But this article explains that it could all just be the celiac and my much too delayed discovery hereof. Thinking about the damage that must have been going on for 44 years of my life, I guess it is no wonder that my recovery is slow. Having been so terribly ill for the last six years, I'm just so impatient to get better. There're so many things I want to do, that I can't. It's like my life is on hold, and sometimes it's simply unbearable. Sorry to go ranting, but I was just down for another three days, unable to do anything but lie in bed and stare up in the ceiling, reading emails or this site ... So now when I'm well again, I have first of all to catch up with all the stuff having piled up on my desk while sick. Feels like my life has been reduced to work and sickness. At least the article explains to me why patience and total adherence is a must. But how are the rest of you dealing with all the limitations that being sick places on you ?

[mftnchn]

Yes, interesting article, Pele. I wonder, would the results of the study have been any better if the patients were following SCD instead of merely gluten-free? Historically, SCD was the first treatment used successfully for celiac according to Elaine. And she questioned the decision to restrict it to only gluten as the problem.

Jan, I know what you mean. I don't have as many sick days in bed (though I've had my share), but still lots of ups and downs. When I am sick I don't cope nearly as well, get discouraged and frustration. When I am well, I seem to pop back in to hopefulness. I do try to shift my work around according to what I can handle. Mostly, I do have this luxury to set my own schedule.

I've recently been seeing a Chinese medicine doctor who does massage/acupressure and happens to treat abdominal issues. I'm not sure it is helping, but it is interesting that all the points that correspond to digestion, intestines, liver and gallbladder all hurt like crazy when he presses them. They don't hurt if it isn't an issue. His diagnosis is inflammation in those areas. The one thing this has helped is it has reduced some of the fluid retention. Now, having been on SCD for almost 1 year--I sure would hope things were better than that.

[Rhoger1]

Hi. Rhoger.

When the gut is really damaged many of us have found that we have issues with a lot of foods. There is no point in trying to keep persevering with them - it won't help, and may actually just keep the damage going.

I know it is frustrating but you just have to try and be glad of the foods you can eat and settle for them - why be in pain when you don't have to?

I would suggest you hold off the Candida herbs for the moment until your body has started to heal somewhat. They are very concentrated and complex and may well be too much for your gut to cope with at present.

Whilst you may need to deal with the Candida at some point, the most important thing at the moment is to get your gut healing and your digestion working better.

The diet does help to get Candida under control anyway over a period of time as removing the bulk of their food source does cut it back and getting the digestion working more efficiently creates a far less welcoming environment for them.

Not everyone can cope with the yogurt to start with so you may be better off with some probiotics instead (Kirkman's seems to be a good make and is SCD compliant).

Just stick at the moment to what your body can cope with and give it a chance to start to recover and then you should find that you can start to reintroduce other foods gradually. Again, you will have to play it by 'ear'. It takes time for the body to heal and the cells to rebuild and you just have to try and be patient.

I could eat no fruit initially and most foods were problematic but gradually, as time went on I was able to bring things in. Eggs were one of the first ones which was great as they are such a staple - that took about 6 - 8 weeks, then I could have bananas. A few weeks later I could have grapes, then apples, then gradually more raw vegetables. Even after a year though some meats were problematic, like pork, lamb and beef, but after I had the big detox, the liver cleanse and started taking some Coconut oil I was able to cope with meat.

Now I am ok with most foods as long as I keep SCD compliant. I still don't cope with carbs, sugars, grains and some dairy, but I don't need it and I don't miss it - there is enough variety in all the other foods to keep me well satisfied.

I'll try to get my system back in order...I spoke too soon when I said formed stool, today wasn't so good. Loose again. Trying to think what I ate and I tried the SCD multi yesterday for the first time as ate Almonds for the past 3 days. Didn't seem like they were bothing me, but when I woke up..stomach girgling and loose stool twice. Rest of the day felt tired, somewhat depressed....maybe since I had my hopes up to high on the quick recovery that seem to have been taking place.

Anyway, back to the few vegies, chicken and fish. A few questions, when you have an episode of Loose stool, etc....do you need to start the diet back to the start which would take along time or just for a few days. Also, how long should I give before introducing new foods and how long in between. I'm still trying to figure out what happened to cause this...5 months ago I was fine and could eat anything and all of a sudden I'm having problems eating just about everything.

Thanks...

[AliB]

Hi Rhoger.

I am not sure that any of us is 'fine', only that we don't start to get symptoms until the damage reaches a level where the gut and/or liver can't cope any more. Personally I feel that the liver plays a bigger part in all this than a lot realise, as does elevated insulin levels triggered by the high-carbs and sugars in the western diet.

Some have niggly issues here and there, odd things that come and go, or more serious health problems for years prior, but it is also typical of gluten intolerance/Celiac that it can suddenly seem to appear out of nowhere. Often a trauma of some kind can trigger it - an illness, accident, emotional upset, whatever. No one seems to know why.

Perhaps the loose stool is telling you that you are going too fast. I know that it was months before I could cope with nuts, even though I tried to persevere with them. I now realise that they were just delaying the healing.

Most do go through detox periods so loose stool can be a symptom of your body off-loading, but my money would still be on too much too soon.

I would suggest, like Sherry (mftnchn) said to go more slowly and just try one new food at a time leaving perhaps 4 or five days in between each one so you don't end up confusing any delayed reaction with another food.

Just make sure that nothing you had was contaminated with gluten in any way too. Nuts can be a source, especially if they are shelled and packed in a factory that also processes wheat products (I bought some walnuts that had that on the packet - can't they keep the rotten stuff out of anything!!!!). The fact is though that you can't assume anything. If I am not sure I tend to wash the nuts before I eat them!

[AliB]

Speaking of healing and renewal, here's a new article from celiac.com that sheds some light on why we are here.

https://www.celiac.com/articles/21835/1/Ful...Diet/Page1.html

Excellent Pells. There's one to give more credence to the point of the SCD!

[pele]

Yes, interesting article, Pele. I wonder, would the results of the study have been any better if the patients were following SCD instead of merely gluten-free? Historically, SCD was the first treatment used successfully for celiac according to Elaine. And she questioned the decision to restrict it to only gluten as the problem.

Sherry I thought the same thing! More indication that even though gluten got us where we are, gluten-free doesn't necessarily solve the problems. And the article reminded me of the self-procalimed-celiac expert GI doc who told me the guts completely heals in a short time. Right.

Jan and Sherry

I have ups and downs,too. Mostly with energy rather than digestive at this point, although it doesn't take much deviation from my diet to rile things up. I spent last Saturday away from home and consumed only my own food and drink except I bought a bottle of water. The next day I had D. which is unusual now.

My energy slumps last anywhere from a couple of hours (daily) to days and weeks. Everything new that I try helps a little.

[GermanMia]

Jan,

like pele I don't have any more bigger problems with my digestion if I stick to my diet. The downs are concerning my energy and that starts getting really frustrating. More downs than ups still. I've never layed in bed because I always feared that it would become worse then and I would maybe not be able to get up again... But mostly I have to drag myself to work, no matter what I do, and that is *so* tiring.

Maybe it is a little better now with totally avoiding histamine, but I think that will take some more time - and it requires lots of patience!

Rhoger and Ali,

although I always had problems, the collaps seemed to come out of nowhere. The first one, when I also was diagnosed gluten intolerant, was after kidney surgery when I did not manage to recover. Then after taking an antibiotic because of a kidney inflammation, all of a sudden I was completely well again for three months last summer - fit like never before during the last 20 years. And then the gastro symptoms returned, and from one day to the other I totally crashed again and did not recover since, concerning the energy. But I really hope it just takes lots of time.

[mftnchn]

Mia, maybe the improvement on antibiotic is a clue. What you describe sounds a lot like what happens with lyme.

[Ms Jan]

Hi Sherry and Pele,

Yes, sometimes I get very sick, like last week, other times I just get headaches, and then there are days when it's my energy I loose. Think it depends a bit on what it is exactly that I'm reacting to - and the amounts I've ingested. And just like you Sherry, as soon as I'm well again, like now, my spirits lift, it's like my entire body is smiling in happiness for feeling good, and I'm optimistic and positive, thinking it'll all work out and how lucky I am to have identified the culprits in my health (gluten etc!) and having found the SCD to heal my body.

And some things have changed significantly since I started the SCD: I get somewhat less sick now, even at the very worst, and though they still last three days, I now rebound much faster from these sickness bouts. And when I rebound, I have much more energy and feel stronger and healthier than in a long time. In between I also have a few consecutive weeks where I don't fall sick at all. So I hope these are all good signs of the healing and progress going on.

And Pele, I think you're right that it's important to look for new foods to add: I just introduced apple sauce (found a great Swedish brand, all organic, no additives or sugar) which I seem to do very well with.

Rhoger,

Loose stools could be a sign of the cleansing going on. But as Ali said it could also be your reaction against some foods. You just have to somehow feel your way through trial and error in the beginning of the diet. I normally never have either D nor C, but one week into the diet I got three days of horrible D. Now I think my body was simply purging itself of a lot of bad stuff, because since then I've not had any other incidents of D at all. Find a little select grup of foods you know are safe for you, stick with them for a while, and then slowly add in one or another, starting with foods (small portions) that resemble those you can already eat. It took me acouple of months to get settled on a stable regimen workig for me. And even now five months into the diet, I'm on a rather restrictive selection: vegetables, non-sweet fruits, nuts, chicken and canned tuna. But as long as it keeps me healthy I don't mind. It's when I have setbacks it becomes difficult. But now when I'm up and about, I just cherish what I know I can eat , knowing that it's all good stuff not only for my intestinal system, but for the rest of my body as well.

Ali,

I've been reading about liver cleanses, because I also feel convinced I should do something more in that department. Have been taking various herbs to aid the cleanse, and I'd like to do a major cleanse, only I'm scared to overload my system with released toxins all at once. Any advice on how to go about it?

Or anyone else having tried doing liver cleanses while on the SCD?

Jan

[AliB]

Hi Jan.

I tried to PM you about the Liver cleanse but that facility seems to have been denied to me. I thought I had PM'd you in the past with my email address but can't remember.

Whilst you and I are perfectly sure that it is appropriate as a support to the healing benefit of the diet others may not agree with that so it is probably not wise to post any protocol on here.

I have done it and I know one or two others have too, but we had to do research and pick up the information ourselves to a certain extent. There are quite a lot of resources on the net including some You tube experiences. Although my experience wasn't very good because i didn't prepare properly or make sure the 'elimination' system was working well, I know that at least one other person had a good result.

I hope this helps in some way.

[AliB]

I have been trawling through the forum on Diabetes co uk which is very interesting - especially the section on low-carbing. The thing is that I have known for years that I should eat a low carb diet and on the occasions I did I would always feel better, but it was so hard to stick to.

Now, of course, I have been forced to eat low-carb, which is essentially what the SCD is. My digestion has determined that. But of course it has also impacted on my Diabetes. The lower my carb input, the better my glucose control.

I have been wanting Terry to follow the SCD too as I am sure it would help his Fibromyalgia even more than just dropping the gluten has, but he wouldn't give up his gluten-free cookies or the sugar in his tea.

For the last week or two he has not been feeling very good - very fatigued but not necessarily due to the Fibro. He was told a couple of years ago that his sugar levels were higher than they should be. This afternoon I decided to test him and his sugars were fractionally below a Diabetic diagnosis threshhold, and that was after not having eaten for four hours. Hopefully he will now join me on the diet. He's eaten a low carb dinner and dessert so that's a start.

I watched a lecture given by Gary Taubes at the Stevens institute on the internet last night. He's a very enlightened man. His lecture was basically the scientific aspect of why it is carbs and not fat that affects insulin levels and how that impacts on weight gain and/or weight loss.

That eating fat, protein and vegetables without carbs, particularly refined ones, does not encourage weight gain or loss, but helps the body to rebalance and utilise the food properly.

The low-carbing success stories on the forum have backed that up. The many who posted their stories had lost or gained weight as necessary, their sugars had gone right down, often to normal range, their cholesterol had reduced and levelled out properly and they had found other health issues cleared up.

I think many, many people, as a result of the high-carb diet are living in an elevated insulin response situation. Perhaps not high enough to be classed as diabetic, but enough to throw the body out of synch and encourage other health problems. Gluten foods are major players, but high-carb can lurk in many forms.

I am even more convinced that low-carb (SCD or otherwise) would benefit many people whether Diabetic or not and would certainly prevent a lot from eventually becoming Diabetic, or indeed sick in other ways. The SCD works because it is essentially low-carb.

[Ms Jan]

Jan,

like pele I don't have any more bigger problems with my digestion if I stick to my diet. The downs are concerning my energy and that starts getting really frustrating. More downs than ups still. I've never layed in bed because I always feared that it would become worse then and I would maybe not be able to get up again... But mostly I have to drag myself to work, no matter what I do, and that is *so* tiring.

Maybe it is a little better now with totally avoiding histamine, but I think that will take some more time - and it requires lots of patience!

Rhoger and Ali,

although I always had problems, the collaps seemed to come out of nowhere. The first one, when I also was diagnosed gluten intolerant, was after kidney surgery when I did not manage to recover. Then after taking an antibiotic because of a kidney inflammation, all of a sudden I was completely well again for three months last summer - fit like never before during the last 20 years. And then the gastro symptoms returned, and from one day to the other I totally crashed again and did not recover since, concerning the energy. But I really hope it just takes lots of time.

Mia,

Yes, I know what you mean with keeping dragging oneself around even when you basically can't. It somehow keeps the wheel spinning. I used to do it myself before my headaches and vomiting became simply debilitating. Since then, I have no choice: I literally can do nothing when poisoned - and if I try, I can be sure to do it wrong, or be dangerous to myself and others in the traffic etc. I still firmly believe it's great for the mental state of mind to keep going as long as one can against all odds, but it's also a precarious balance: I got sick the first time the very evening I completed a major project after four years of intense work, the last one year totally up against my own rundown energies, done only on coffee and sheer will power. I got so sick that I even had blind spots before my eyes - and the dr had to come twice a day and inject me in order for me not to dehydrate. So that was it for my body: I'd evidently run it one step too far, and my entire system collapsed. And what I've now realized is, that it might have countered my healing that until a year ago, I still kept pushing myself any minute possible - in a sense (perhaps similar to your determination) that if I stopped, I wouldn't be able to get going again. I still have this propensity. But now I know the costs to my health (and thus my work) when I'm into something and keep going on caffeine or whatever will power that'll enable me to continue some more hours. It totally undermines all my dietary efforts, and the price comes crashing in at ten-times-costs a few days later.

All this just to say: Only you know how much your body can take, and where exactly the balance lies - just do be careful how far you push yourself, so that it doesn't counter the SCD and all your other efforts to stay healthy. Don't end up like I did ... running my own health, mind and body into the ditch!

The way you describe your energy situation, it does sound like you might also have other things going on that the SCD can't address: perhaps Lyme like Sherry suggested, or an integral infection somewhere or something altogether different, undermining your recovery. (I discovered last winter I had carried around a 'closed in' pelvic infection for six mths, which totally zapped my energy until my dr put me on strong anti-biotics for two weeks.) Vitamin deficiencies also do that to me. But I seem to remember from earlier posts that you're totally on top of this part of the equation.

Ali,

Thanks - and yes, I do have an email address from last and will write you shortly.

Jan

[GermanMia]

Sherry,

I thought about this antibiotic, too, and my dr. even agreed to put me on the same antibiotic again when I suggested it last autumn. Unluckily it did not have the same effect.

Ali and Jan,

my naturopath friend suggested that I'd try a special liver cleansing because my liver is enlarged and I don't digest fat very well despite taking enzymes. Now I'm going to do it as soon as I feel stable enough. If you like I'll translate it and send it per pm to you both. maybe it's another kind of cleansing than yours, Ali.

Jan, just some days ago a friend who's gynaecologist and suffered from breast cancer several years ago told me to try dark field microscopy to see if there is some infection which cannot be discovered by conservative tests. You're right, my low energy level seems to have to do with something besides the gastro problems. Or like we say: You can have lice AND fleas

And you're right - that's what I always am unsure about: How much dragging my body to work is good and where is the point to stop. I just stop as soon as I would have to use something like caffein to keep going.

Anyway I must say that during the last days it was astonishingly okay - blood pressure felt better, no feeling like fainting. We had a team party last night - made only with scd legal food and nobody realised! - and I was on my feet from 6 in the morning until four the next morning. But it still seems better than usual, altough I had some more fructose (zucchini and cucumbers). But I still strictly avoided histamine, and maybe this is one of the keys.

[Ms Jan]

Mia,

that would be really kind of you! And there I'll also write more about energy and balances which I guess is not directly SCD related.

Hope you/your drs do identify what else might be taxing your energies.

Jan

[mftnchn]

My best sense so far is that staying on my very basic SCD foods is making a difference in my bloating. However, it just tends to build up anyway. I'm still experimenting. I'm kind of wondering about doing just a very nutritious broth 1 day a week or so. I notice if I just do apple juice for one day (I've done this twice preparing for the liver cleanses I did), I will get rid of a lot of fluid. So something in my diet may be triggering the bloating. Or else it is simply that it builds up because my system doesn't handle much at once. I rarely have a lot of discomfort which is great. Just C, or a little nausea very occasionally, plus the bloating.

It appears to be inflammation related. That idea seems to be supported by what the Chinese medicine acupressurist is telling me. He is finding the digestion system to be inflamed, lots of fluid in the abdomen, and the liver inflamed. He can tell by the places along the spine that the acupressure points are very tender and the muscles in "ropes" that correspond to that point. The liver and large intestine points are the most painful (pain in the pressure point indicates a problem, otherwise it isn't painful).

Jan, I have done the liver cleanse, feel free to PM or email me about it. Mia, I'd be interested in what you plan to do as well.

Sherry

[GermanMia]

Sherry,

I tried to send you a pm but didn't succeed for some reason. There was no problem to send a message to Jan, but when I try you the system tells me that an error has shown up

If I don't succeed later, maybe send me a message so that I can answer you.

[mftnchn]

Mia, I tried to send you a PM but I get a message that I am not allowed to use the messenger feature on this board. Its puzzling since I haven't been informed of any problem with any of my posts nor of my PMs and have had 0% warnings. I noticed the last time or two I tried to send a message that it wouldn't go, but I missed the message that I was not allowed. Sorry for the inconvenience.

If I can figure out a way to let you know it without posting for anyone to see , I'll send you my email address as I'd like that information you mentioned.

Sherry

[GermanMia]

Mia, I tried to send you a PM but I get a message that I am not allowed to use the messenger feature on this board. Its puzzling since I haven't been informed of any problem with any of my posts nor of my PMs and have had 0% warnings. I noticed the last time or two I tried to send a message that it wouldn't go, but I missed the message that I was not allowed. Sorry for the inconvenience.

If I can figure out a way to let you know it without posting for anyone to see , I'll send you my email address as I'd like that information you mentioned.

Sherry

Sherry,

you can send me a mail to this adress: leaina@web.de

I don't mind to make this one public because it's the "send all spam to this adress" email I'll then write back from my regular mail.

Mia

[fig girl]

Sherry,

you can send me a mail to this adress: leaina@web.de

I don't mind to make this one public because it's the "send all spam to this adress" email I'll then write back from my regular mail.

Mia

Hi Mia and Sherry,

I'd be interested in your liver cleanse protocols as well if you don't mind. I can try sending you both a message and see if you can reply if you have a problem sending it to me. Mia, if that doesn't work i'll send you a message to the above address. Thanks girls! I sometimes have a little pain in my upper right side near my liver area. Before going gluten-free and before beginning the SCD i would drink milk thistle tea occasionally. Hopefully i'll be able to tolerate the ingredients in your protocols....last time i tried lemon juice it irritated my stomach. Maybe i consumed too much of it at once though.

Thanks again!

Michelle