Oh No, Not Sprained Tendons Again! --for That?

[YoloGx]

I know I am not alone in this. I still am not absorbing minerals like I should be and my collagen must be low since I still can easily strain my connective tissue. I have been off all trace gluten for two years now. Was just walking my mom's dog--training her to walk beside me. She was being pretty good, but it was too much for me. I wrecked my elbow and shoulder due to my yanking on her collar to make sure she stayed with me rather than ahead of me. Acch! Its likely to take months to heal.

It shouldn't have happened since I try to exercise nearly every day, albeit softly due to my physical requirements. But I was to my credit also doing push ups.

So last night I rushed out and bought some collagen building supplements--silica and MSM to take with my other mineral supplements. And of course am applying ice, arnica oil and take some ibuprofin and nattokinase for the inflammation and to avoid scar tissue (I also am a little weird here since I need the natto to counteract my tendency to have blood that clots too quickly--unlike many here who are the opposite).

Its just so frustrating since I enjoy being a physical person. I was just getting in the swing of doing some creative painting again. At least I can type on the computer (more or less), but this is frustrating!

Anyone else besides me and Ravenwood with connective tissue problems like this?

Years ago I sprained my ankle just vaccuming. And another time walking down hill on a slope. Vitamin D helped but as the years go on, the problem seems to go away and then resurfaces. I had a frozen shoulder for a while. It took me 7 or 8 years to more or less get over a whiplash. I still have to struggle with some of its aftereffects. I have numerous devices to help put me back into joint. As well as yoga and pilates. I guess I need to start swimming when able again. I wasn't strong enough to do so for the longest time and so got out of the habit. Taking olive leaf has helped, as well as going off all trace gluten and taking E-zorb calcium and co-enzyme B complex and trace minerals. Yes of course I do have some osteoporosis in my neck.

Any suggestions than grit your teeth and be patient?

Thankfully I am more or less ambidextrous.

I was reading that this connective tissue disorder often goes together with celiac. And certainly I have always been extremely flexible. I use it to help me get back into joint, but its so damn easy to get out of it to begin with...like the poison is the cure.

I keep wondering if being exposed to radiation from Hanford Nuclear Power Plant in Washington State as an infant back in 1949 increased the ill effects of all this...and so many other symptoms I have had to struggle with. It seems to never stop. I believe I am getting a handle on it, putting names on things but honestly it doesn't seem quite fair, like all these hidden booby traps.

I no longer get ill so easily as I used to, but the old bod still has a few tricks up its sleeve!

Oops, and now we've bumped into a New Year! Another round dears!!

Though honestly I am going to try and see the bright side and see this as the Universe telling me to focus on my writing for now...even if it means having to install Dragon Naturally Speaking.

Bea

[mushroom]

Bea. I don't know if what I and my gluten intolerant sister have is anything similar to what you are describing, but when we get together we both talk about the weird problems we both have that no one else we have ever known seems to have involving connective tissue. For starters, all our connective tissue is extremely sensitive to pressure. Someone grabs our legs and we scream bloody murder. We strain and sprain very easily, even when in peak fitness (which I am not now, admittedly). My "rheumatoid arthritis" is in my connective tissue as well as my joints (maybe this is what some people call fibromyalgia?). She has parasympathetic problems in her connective tissue. I strained my plantar fascia quite badly once, and it only takes a little tweak to set the whole cascade off again. When I get glutened my muscles and connective tissue get ropey and painful, only to mysteriously subside within a few hours. It is all such a strange syndrome.

The thing that used to help me most was walking and exercising in a PT pool (I do not swim because of foot problems--cannot kick and also have COPD from my smoking days), but can't find a pool here where I can do that. Very frustrating!!

[gfp]

I can sympathize yet offer little in advice.

Each of my joints seems to take in in turn ... the trigger has been walking along a smooth sidewalk! That was it for my ankle, no stress, I as just out walking in sensible shoes on a smooth sidewalk - result 2 weeks of agony and not being able to walk. Same thing for my knees and neck ...

Currently my neck is killing me, I just woke up n the night like this. All my muscles along the trapeziums are knotted sympathetically, It cracks and grinds because of this and I am getting to the end of my patience. It has been like this and getting worse now for 2 years. My current neck problem (its happened before) is now going on 3 weeks. It was feeling much better until I played with my baby yesterday!

This is what is really annoying me, I can't even play with my baby!

I know my problem is connective tissue not muscle because for instance I can pinpoint the present point in my neck. The upper tendon on the lavator scapula is the exact point ...

My elbows are also sore to touch ... sore as in they hurt if I rest them on a pillow sometimes.

"Thankfully I am more or less ambidextrous." Funny, I keep telling myself the same thing. My elbows have caused me to keep switching hands and my signature is completely different from left to right. I usually write left handed (since age 5 when I broke my collar bone) because computer mice tend to be placed on the right ... but lately I have moved the mouse to the other side and started writing right handed.

[tarnalberry]

Some people are hypermobile - their ligaments and tendons are already long, or very stretchy, and don't do as much work as they should holding a joint together. (The extreme form of this is Ehler's Danlos.) Strength training of some variety (I use my yoga practice, just pushups would not be enough for the shoulders and elbow) is about the best thing you can do in order to find strong, BALANCED, muscles that can support the joint doing some of the work the ligaments and tendons are supposed to do.

(Of course, hypermobility may not be your problem, but if you can find a good PT to work with, they can help you figure out if that's the case.)

[gfp]

Some people are hypermobile - their ligaments and tendons are already long, or very stretchy, and don't do as much work as they should holding a joint together. (The extreme form of this is Ehler's Danlos.) Strength training of some variety (I use my yoga practice, just pushups would not be enough for the shoulders and elbow) is about the best thing you can do in order to find strong, BALANCED, muscles that can support the joint doing some of the work the ligaments and tendons are supposed to do.

(Of course, hypermobility may not be your problem, but if you can find a good PT to work with, they can help you figure out if that's the case.)

My left arm already has shortened ligaments (indeed it doesn't stretch the whole way) after a injury years ago when I tore both ligaments.

[YoloGx]

I can sympathize yet offer little in advice.

Each of my joints seems to take in in turn ... the trigger has been walking along a smooth sidewalk! That was it for my ankle, no stress, I as just out walking in sensible shoes on a smooth sidewalk - result 2 weeks of agony and not being able to walk. Same thing for my knees and neck ...

Currently my neck is killing me, I just woke up n the night like this. All my muscles along the trapeziums are knotted sympathetically, It cracks and grinds because of this and I am getting to the end of my patience. It has been like this and getting worse now for 2 years. My current neck problem (its happened before) is now going on 3 weeks. It was feeling much better until I played with my baby yesterday!

This is what is really annoying me, I can't even play with my baby!

I know my problem is connective tissue not muscle because for instance I can pinpoint the present point in my neck. The upper tendon on the lavator scapula is the exact point ...

My elbows are also sore to touch ... sore as in they hurt if I rest them on a pillow sometimes.

"Thankfully I am more or less ambidextrous." Funny, I keep telling myself the same thing. My elbows have caused me to keep switching hands and my signature is completely different from left to right. I usually write left handed (since age 5 when I broke my collar bone) because computer mice tend to be placed on the right ... but lately I have moved the mouse to the other side and started writing right handed.

I complain but it seems you may have it even worse. Oh wow! Its possible the problem is not enough collagen--so the thing is to do the things to produce more as well as build up your muscles slowly and in a non impact kind of way. Another poster said this may be like Ehlers Danlos Syndrome.

At any rate, I actually am feeling a little better today. So maybe my remedies/research have some merit!

Just as an experiment, try taking MSM and a more easily absorpable form of silica like BiosSil. I have also just restarted taking cod liver oil for the vitamin D and A and Omega 3's (2 tsp.). Drinking a lot of green tea I just discovered can help with increased collagen production too, as well as eating berries.

Am assuming you already take the usual extra calcium, magnesium, zinc and trace minerals. Some like Bone Up. I use E-zorb for the calcium and take everything separate. I was just reading Bone Up may be perfectly safe--made from the bones of young Australian calves. I am still up in the air about that. I also eat a lot of home made 24 hour yogurt.

Plus I try to do light exercise every day. Including light weights (start with one or two pounds, work up to 5) as I am able (not now since my elbows need to heal!!). I bought a sacro wedgy to help adjust my sacrum and low back and to a certain extent my neck. There are gentle neck adjusting devices out there. I also bought and use a molded device I lay on to adjust my spine (spine worx) for 5 to 10 minutes as needed. These devices actually help immensely and used judiciously seem safe. The yoga really makes a difference in the main. When I am able I use my malibu Pilates chair. I take walks daily. I am thinking of swimming again when able. The swimming might really work for you, with say a jucuzzi before and after like I always used to do as a kind of "sandwich" my body loved.

This condition seems to require one too be flexible in approach and low impact!

For now I knock on wood!! I seem to be hurting less, amazingly since usually this lasts at least 3 months if not six or more.

The arnica oil repeatedly slathered on and increased dosage of nattokinase to reduce inflammation may have also helped. I am not ashamed. For this I do throw in the kitchen sink!!

Bea

[tarnalberry]

My left arm already has shortened ligaments (indeed it doesn't stretch the whole way) after a injury years ago when I tore both ligaments.

Sorry for any confusion, gfp. I wasn't responding to your post, but to the original poster.

[YoloGx]

Some people are hypermobile - their ligaments and tendons are already long, or very stretchy, and don't do as much work as they should holding a joint together. (The extreme form of this is Ehler's Danlos.) Strength training of some variety (I use my yoga practice, just pushups would not be enough for the shoulders and elbow) is about the best thing you can do in order to find strong, BALANCED, muscles that can support the joint doing some of the work the ligaments and tendons are supposed to do.

(Of course, hypermobility may not be your problem, but if you can find a good PT to work with, they can help you figure out if that's the case.)

You are perfectly right Tarnalberry. I do yoga too as well as the push ups and sit ups and lots of walking (working towards using my pilates chair after an illness this fall), but it wasn't enough. I need to start swimming when able and the light weights again, also when able (which is not now).

I just found out about this Ehler's Danlos. I don't think I am quite there, but close. 2 of my siblilngs have high palates and 3 have crowded teeth and lots of joint problems. My brother with Down's is hypermobile. I have always been very flexible and have one thumb that bends part of the way back in a seeming extra joint at the base.

It hasn't helped to not be able to absorb calcium very well at all. Here I am after all now age 60!! I have been taking calcium supplements since I was 21, when it was pointed out by an old naturopath that my peeling fingernails with ridges and white spots were not normal. My other docs however always just found it anecdotally amusing. Finally a dentist pointed out that my teeth had not hardened after 3 root canals failed (I was 45 years old). It was then that I figured out that maybe I had celiac, though it wasn't until 2 years ago that I discovered I needed to go off all trace gluten (or even knew what that was!). My sister in her mid 60's still has unhardened teeth. My eldest sister at age 68 used to have what was called fibromyalgia, but now knows is celiac--and she now is fine except for her feet (she wears these absurd huge clod hopper boots for support that callous her feet).

Due to reading about Ehler's Danlos I looked up collagen and started working on that. Already I am starting to feel a little better--yay!! It's probably the mood I am in, however I feel more hopeful and yes my joints and connective tissue today feel some relief. It helps to finally see in part what is going on.

I think this condition for me at least has a lot to do with malabsorption in great part due to the damage from celiac (which I have had since I was an infant and was largely untreated most of my life). This is another big reason I take the nattokinase--to get rid of the excess scar tissue. My blood is very thick and clots way too quickly anyway so I think of it as extra insurance against that.

However I was also just reading that silica is highly recommended for those who have celiac and thus damage to the villi. It doesn't hurt to learn that the silica is essential for proper collagen formation. Years ago I had a full panel done and noticed my silica was very low so I think this was a telling clue I wish my doc had paid more attention to when I asked him about it. I could have avoided a lot of problems since. But at least I do have a good memory for these kinds of things and can finally put 2 and 2 together.

Bea

[Ahorsesoul]

Bea,

I do have the same joint problems. I'm sure not help with that but for the dog I suggest getting a Gentle Leader. It will prevent the strain on your arm. It works along the lines of a horse halter. You will have better control, will find training easier and your dog will not have his throat jerked on.

I had a 97 pound dog that I was taking to Obedience Class. I also found I couldn't keep up with the training. My arms were killing me (I also have nerve damage to both arm along with the joint pain). I arrived early one day so I was watching a Obedience Class with 5 year olds. The children were five years old. All with difference size dogs ranging from toy size to a German shepherd. All dogs had gentle leaders on. All children had complete control of their dogs. I purchased a gentle leader on the spot.

Dogs can bark, eat and bite with them on. They do not cause any pain. I wish I had been introduced to them sooner.

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[YoloGx]

Bea,

I do have the same joint problems. I'm sure not help with that but for the dog I suggest getting a Gentle Leader. It will prevent the strain on your arm. It works along the lines of a horse halter. You will have better control, will find training easier and your dog will not have his throat jerked on.

I had a 97 pound dog that I was taking to Obedience Class. I also found I couldn't keep up with the training. My arms were killing me (I also have nerve damage to both arm along with the joint pain). I arrived early one day so I was watching a Obedience Class with 5 year olds. The children were five years old. All with difference size dogs ranging from toy size to a German shepherd. All dogs had gentle leaders on. All children had complete control of their dogs. I purchased a gentle leader on the spot.

Dogs can bark, eat and bite with them on. They do not cause any pain. I wish I had been introduced to them sooner.

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Thanks! What great idea! I will definitely get one for my mom's dog!! I had looked at some of those at the pet store but just didn't know really what they did. Am hoping it will make it easy for my mom and brother to give the dog walks too.

Meanwhile I am healing faster than usual. I think the silica and msm in addition to my usual supplements is really helping--as well as continuing to slather on arnica oil. I also bought some vitamin A/D fish oil since I don't get enough A probably from my diet and know I am low on D. I got tired from a late night and my eyes were killing me. This seems to be part of the pattern with the weakened nerves.

I am healing so well that it looks like I'll be able to paint soon after all...yay! I really got depressed thinking I'd have to quit that too.

I am actually amazed at how many of us with celiac or severe gluten intolerance have this problem with nerve and tendon fragility--though I suppose it makes sense due to malabsorption. A Horsesoul, have you improved at all? Do you exercise? How do you cope?

Bea

[tarnalberry]

It's worth noting that not everyone thinks that the gentle leaders are a good idea. They certainly don't teach the dog what is right to do, they merely offer an unpleasant sensation the dog tries to avoid. And I'm also not fond of the effect they have on the dog's behavior, since they know that they are not in a position to defend themselves if need be.

I've walked dogs on both - different dogs, and, ironically, the "gentler" one was on the 'gentle lead'. I prefer teaching the proper behavior, as it is much easier to communicate with the dog.

(One thing that can work training dogs who don't know about a controlled walk is when they start forging ahead, to just stop. Don't move, don't smile, don't frown, don't say a word. Stop, and don't continue walking until they return to you and are in the position you want. Yeah, it may take forever to get anywhere, but it's one place to start. Of course, if the dog *knows* that they're not supposed to be pulling at all, and there is something else rewarding the behavior (like a really good smell on the other end), sometimes a correction is important.)

Anywho - just wanted to share that there are mixed feelings on the gentle leader (and pretty much any type of lead out there ).

[gfp]

I am actually amazed at how many of us with celiac or severe gluten intolerance have this problem with nerve and tendon fragility--though I suppose it makes sense due to malabsorption.

Is all of this down to mal-adsorption?

I honestly don't know but I feel there may be something more systemic?

Has anyone been tested for Lupus? (I know House always say's it's not Lupus but...)

It seems so common that another autoimmune reason seems as likely as mal-adsorption? It might be lupus or related fibromyalgia or something new?

I'm just wondering here ....

[ravenwoodglass]

I am actually amazed at how many of us with celiac or severe gluten intolerance have this problem with nerve and tendon fragility--though I suppose it makes sense due to malabsorption.

Bea

For some of us, like myself, it isn't a lack of anything that causes the tendon and ligament issues. It is just a genetic difference. I was born with ED, as were others that have it. It isn't something that develops it is just the way I am made. Folks with ED will sometimes see an increase in hypermobility as they get older especially if the weakness is not addressed and countered. Often just regular excercise isn't going to do it. The excercises need to address the mobility issues of the individual.

Some will have problems also from inflammation from gluten. For me that meant fibro pain. Once the inflammation was addressed by getting off gluten the 'fibro' went away.

Some will have problems with an old injury because they have compensated for it. For myself that meant that when I twisted my ankle I changed my gait to compensate resulting in throwing the rest of my body out of wack. I didn't see anyone for it for a long time so by the time I did the ankle had stiffened and my 'loose' joint had 'frozen' when it healed so it needed to be unfrozen for the rest of my body to get back to the alignment it needed to be in.

Good nutrition will help if someone has any injury but for a ED syndrome person the malabsorption doesn't cause it or make it worse. For someone with ED a good physical therapist can make an incredible difference.

[YoloGx]

For some of us, like myself, it isn't a lack of anything that causes the tendon and ligament issues. It is just a genetic difference. I was born with ED, as were others that have it. It isn't something that develops it is just the way I am made. Folks with ED will sometimes see an increase in hypermobility as they get older especially if the weakness is not addressed and countered. Often just regular excercise isn't going to do it. The excercises need to address the mobility issues of the individual.

Some will have problems also from inflammation from gluten. For me that meant fibro pain. Once the inflammation was addressed by getting off gluten the 'fibro' went away.

Some will have problems with an old injury because they have compensated for it. For myself that meant that when I twisted my ankle I changed my gait to compensate resulting in throwing the rest of my body out of wack. I didn't see anyone for it for a long time so by the time I did the ankle had stiffened and my 'loose' joint had 'frozen' when it healed so it needed to be unfrozen for the rest of my body to get back to the alignment it needed to be in.

Good nutrition will help if someone has any injury but for a ED syndrome person the malabsorption doesn't cause it or make it worse. For someone with ED a good physical therapist can make an incredible difference.

Ravenwoodglass, is totally right. Some people have Ehrlos Danlos syndrome. Others may be somewhere in between. If its another kind of disease, I don't know.

I have just noticed that for myself I have had mineral deficiencies most of my life due to malabsorption, of which the celiac made much worse and it seems others may have this problem too. I have also been very flexible all my life. I probably should get checked out for ED sometime or other.

No matter what, going off all trace gluten really has helped me, exercise also really has been necessary, and for me and those perhaps like me, mineral supplementation also can really help as well as detox herbs. It seems a combination of factors which seems very individual, of which there is no one magic pill.

Meanwhile I am improving a lot faster than in the past, of which I am very grateful. The article here on celiac.com that included info about the herbs and silica was really helpful for me. I plan to start slowly swimming again as part of my recovery once my elbows and connecting tendons are a little better.

Bea