Uprisings - Reaching New Heights In Gluten-Free Baking

[irish daveyboy]

Perhaps, but I and others can't do dairy. I suppose it's the casein or the lactose which does it. But I've been making some progress, and will be posting about it once I get enough figured out.

Try using Better than milk powder

or Nannycare goats milk powder (may only be available in Europe).

Open Original Shared Link

Best Regards,

David

[doodle]

Hi Rice Guy, haven't been on the site for awhile but I see you are still a wealth of knowledge. The forum & everyone who "attends" is lucky to have people like you to help them learn.

A few things I am wondering about.

How long of a shelf life do you find you get with your bread (mixture) and have you ever used (or do you feel that) any of the bean flours to help retain moisture as well as stablity/freshness for additional shelf life?

We can get darker teff flour here but the ivory is not readily available. Have you ever used the darker teff instead of the ivory and if so what adjustments did/would you make to allow for their differences.

doodle

[RiceGuy]

How long of a shelf life do you find you get with your bread (mixture) and have you ever used (or do you feel that) any of the bean flours to help retain moisture as well as stablity/freshness for additional shelf life?

We can get darker teff flour here but the ivory is not readily available. Have you ever used the darker teff instead of the ivory and if so what adjustments did/would you make to allow for their differences.

If you mean the shelf life of the dry flours, I generally try to keep out only what will be used in about a month, and the rest stays in the freezer. Flours high in protein, like bean flours, tend to spoil more quickly than others. It is these which I'd prefer to limit to a month at room temp. Starches (which I don't use) generally have a much longer shelf life. I usually don't make a bunch of any blend to keep on hand, since I'm always experimenting. But I'd consider the shelf life of a blend to be that of whichever flour in it has the shortest shelf life.

I do use bean flours, but I wouldn't say they extend shelf life. Soy flour seems to retain much more moisture than most others, but also makes the bread very soft. Too soft for my preference. Bean flours do help get better browning, but so far they seem to limit the maximum height of the bread. At least when using the techniques I detail in this thread. Although I do get very nice results when buckwheat flour is also part of the blend instead of the sorghum, when yellow pea flour is a part of the blend. So I'd say some other bean flours may also work out ok when buckwheat is being used.

Adding some lecithin granules will help retain moisture, and supposedly may help extend shelf life. However, the best way I've found to keep gluten-free breads fresh is to freeze what won't be used in one or two days. Oddly, refrigerating it seems to be the worst thing to do. However, I haven't tested shelf life with breads made with the guar gum and psyllium combo. There may be some differences, either pro or con. Perhaps the added fiber will retain more moisture. But being that the texture imparted by the sweet potato flour is comparatively good, I suppose that should help too. I don't recall if I was using that the last time I tested shelf life.

I have used the brown teff, and the most notable difference to me is the flavor and aroma. I guess there may also be some small difference in the texture, but it wasn't apparent to me for the things I used it in. I haven't tried it in this bread recipe. I think it would probably make for a nice dark pumpernickel/rye style bread though. Check here for my comments on the brown teff as well as other flours.

[RiceGuy]

Try using Better than milk powder

Unfortunately, it has corn and tapioca. However, looking at the ingredients, I'm not so sure it would assist much in achieving either the Open Original Shared Link, Open Original Shared Link, or Open Original Shared Link. Apparently, one or more of these processes is commonly how bread crust gets browned.

Ingredients

Brown Rice Syrup Solids, Maltodextrin (From Organic Rice, Corn, Tapioca), Evaporated Cane Juice, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavors (No Msg, No Dairy), Calcium Carbonate, Sea Salt, Rice Flour, Food Starch - Modified (From Corn), Rice Extract, Xanthan Gum, Guar Gum, Monoglycerides, Fructooligosaccharides (Sugars That Occur Naturally In Plants That Promote the Grown of Beneficial Bacteria), Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid), Vitamin E (D-alpha Tocopherol Acetate), Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine Hydrochloride), Vitamin A (Acetate), Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin).

I was unable to locate the nutrition facts for the product however, so I can't be certain about the percentage of sugar and protein. The types of amino acids may also play a role in how effective it would be in aiding the browning process.

I still have some experiments to try, and one way or another I'm sure I'll figure something out. The crust does get nicely browned if I use enough yellow pea flour, but doing so usually means a considerable loss in height. Keeping the dough covered for the first few minutes of baking helps too, though there are trade-offs with this as well.

[Mrs. P]

Unfortunately, it has corn and tapioca. .......The crust does get nicely browned if I use enough yellow pea flour, but doing so usually means a considerable loss in height. Keeping the dough covered for the first few minutes of baking helps too, though there are trade-offs with this as well.

RiceGuy,

I have three main questions and comments:

1) could you use Egg Replacer? I think it has potato starch though, I know you don't use starches. I'm thinking of trying it with the next loaf I made.

2) I'm curious, what are the trade offs with keeping the loaf covered for the first few minutes? I could do that..... I used my second sandwich loaf pan to cover the last loaf I made while it was raising. The loaf didn't keep the height though. We are just making short sandwiches. It raised about to 3X but then fell to 2X, just approximating. I let it raise outdoors under the grill lid, where it was very warm, and baked it there too. Lighting the grill and closing the cover, I get 400 degrees within just a minute and it stays right there.

3) What is the ratio of pea flour to the rest that you use?

4) I know, I said three but thought of another one. Have you ever used a sweetener? I have been wondering if the yeast needs something more to feed on or is the sweet potato flour enough?

5) What type of yeast are you using? I have been using active dry yeast. I just have not been getting the height that you seem to be getting.

[RiceGuy]

RiceGuy,

I have three main questions and comments:

1) could you use Egg Replacer? I think it has potato starch though, I know you don't use starches. I'm thinking of trying it with the next loaf I made.

2) I'm curious, what are the trade offs with keeping the loaf covered for the first few minutes? I could do that..... I used my second sandwich loaf pan to cover the last loaf I made while it was raising. The loaf didn't keep the height though. We are just making short sandwiches. It raised about to 3X but then fell to 2X, just approximating. I let it raise outdoors under the grill lid, where it was very warm, and baked it there too. Lighting the grill and closing the cover, I get 400 degrees within just a minute and it stays right there.

3) What is the ratio of pea flour to the rest that you use?

4) I know, I said three but thought of another one. Have you ever used a sweetener? I have been wondering if the yeast needs something more to feed on or is the sweet potato flour enough?

5) What type of yeast are you using? I have been using active dry yeast. I just have not been getting the height that you seem to be getting.

I can't do nightshades, so potato is out. However, since egg replacer is basically starch, I doubt it would work like an egg does when used to coat the bread, and get the characteristic crust.

The trade-offs with keeping the dough covered for the first few minutes are that the bread ends up retaining more moisture, resulting in a softer, almost soggy texture by comparison. It also seems to lead to the dough falling somewhat. However, compensating by putting less water in the dough to begin with may resolve both these issues. Lastly, it can complicate the baking process, since the cover may get in the way of the rising dough. A flat piece of foil is pretty easy to use and remove, but does not allow for the dough to rise above the rim of the pan. Since the temperature will be very high, whatever is used must be oven-safe. It also needs to be easily removable so as to not disturb the delicate dough.

I find that using pea flour for about 1/4 the total flour seems to work well enough for the browning. It can replace some or all of either the teff or sorghum, or some of each. But keep the sweet potato flour at the same ratio. As I mentioned in a previous post, buckwheat flour seems to help keep the dough from falling when pea flour is used. So I suppose some others may help as well. I am going to try millet next.

I have tried using a sugar, not to feed the yeast, but for the browning. The only thing that I noticed which was different is that the bread stuck to the pan quite a lot. I didn't see any difference in speed of rise or maximum height. However, since I don't use ordinary sugar, I don't have any to try. I used agave, which I happened to be experimenting with at the time. If the yeast were running out of food, the dough wouldn't continue to rise. So I don't see the need to add a sugar to aid the yeast. I don't recall any particular improvement in the browning, but I may try again, since the recipe wasn't as refined at the time as it is now.

I use regular active dry yeast. Thus far, I find that if the dough doesn't rise enough, it is often due to not enough water. If it falls while baking, that generally means there was too much water in the dough. However, the use of pea flour seems to alter these tendencies a bit.

If it requires a little more time to fully rise, so be it. I have noticed that if the dough has exceeded its peak, the surface often begins to appear a bit bumpy or "bubbly". I believe this is because the air bubbles inside the dough are getting too large, joining together, and deforming the surface. The dough often falls while baking, and ends up with larger holes than usual.

[irish daveyboy]

I was unable to locate the nutrition facts for the product however, so I can't be certain about the percentage of sugar and protein. The types of amino acids may also play a role in how effective it would be in aiding the browning process.

Here you go Open Original Shared Link

Best Regards,

David

[RiceGuy]

Here you go Open Original Shared Link

Best Regards,

David

Thanks. Since it apparently has no protein, then it would seem to be up to the sugars. And sugars can be added without using the milk powder. However, the browning would ideally be achieved without making the bread taste sweet. Since wheat breads can brown without having sugar added, a gluten-free bread should also. And that's what makes me think it's the proteins (or more specifically the amino acids) which do most of the trick.

I'm thinking that since high protein seems to limit the maximum rise, perhaps adding a single amino acid would work better. Until I do a bit more research, I won't know if any particular amino acid would be more effective.

[Mizzo]

Hi Riceguy,

I do not have sweet potato flour and cannot bring myself to make a $3 purchase with a $8 shipping fee and I am fully stocked in all other gluten-free cooking supplies or else I would tag onto the order and make myself feel better about it. So.... I mentioned this to my local health food store owner who does not carry Barry Farms supplies and she made an interesting suggestion.

Can you substitute pureed cooked sweet potato and reduce the water to achieve a SIMILAR product. I cannot compare with this method as I do not know what your Original recipe tastes and looks like.

What do you think?

Maureen

[RiceGuy]

OK, so I've played around with this recipe some more, and I think the results I now get are better. I've found that bean flours can work just fine as part of the blend, without sacrificing height. They just require more water to allow a complete rise. For the most part, the advantage of bean flours in this recipe is better browning. But the additional protein, fiber, and other nutrients they offer is certainly nice too.

I find that yellow pea flour and white bean flour both work well. The white bean flour provides noticeably better browning, and therefore it may help to reduce the baking temperature a little. I've also used equal amounts of each, with good results.

In making precise measurements, I also discovered that my measuring cup is not very accurate. I'm sure I'm not the only one to have a cheap measuring cup, so it wouldn't surprise me if this is a factor in why different people report different results from following the same recipe.

As you probably know by now, I do my experimenting with small amounts of dough. I have not yet tried this new blend for a whole loaf. The ratio of flour to water however, should be fairly consistent. I do plan to try a full loaf soon though.

Something else which must be mentioned here is that the additional water means that the dough should not be allowed to rise quite as high as it is when less water is used. The reason for this is simple; the more water the dough contains, the more steam will be produced within the dough during baking. More than anything else, it is the steam which expands the dough during baking. I find that a rise of about 3x the original dough height is optimal for this particular formulation. An additional rise of almost 1x is obtained during baking, for a total of nearly 4x. Since the dough must be covered during the rising process, one advantage is that it is easier to raise the dough without it contacting the cover, while still yielding a loaf of satisfactory height.

Here is the blend:

3 parts Sweet Potato flour

3 parts Sorghum flour

2 parts Bean flour

When I use 1/2 cup of this blend, the optimum amount of water has been 1/4 cup + 2 Tbsp.

A pinch of ground ginger helps reduce the taste of the bean flours (though neither of the types suggested here are anywhere near as prominent as some others such as garbanzo ). I figure 1/4 to 1/2 tsp ginger should be enough for a whole loaf. Note that this is the ground ginger, NOT crystallized ginger. I've also used one or two parts ivory teff flour in place of an equal portion of the sorghum flour, and I think it turned out well. Teff flour seems to help develop a more substantial crust. I also like the flavor teff imparts.

The amounts of guar gum and psyllium have not changed - 1 tsp each, per cup of total flour. I will say though, that it appears that the guar gum should not be any more than that, and may be slightly reduced. In contrast, the psyllium should not be less, and may be slightly increased.

Rise time has been about 40-45 minutes, but will vary depending on the temperature at which the dough is maintained, as well as the amount of yeast you use. Bake time and temp is 20-25 minutes at approximately 325-350

[RiceGuy]

Hi Riceguy,

I do not have sweet potato flour and cannot bring myself to make a $3 purchase with a $8 shipping fee and I am fully stocked in all other gluten-free cooking supplies or else I would tag onto the order and make myself feel better about it. So.... I mentioned this to my local health food store owner who does not carry Barry Farms supplies and she made an interesting suggestion.

Can you substitute pureed cooked sweet potato and reduce the water to achieve a SIMILAR product. I cannot compare with this method as I do not know what your Original recipe tastes and looks like.

What do you think?

Maureen

My apologies for the late reply.

Well, since the sweet potato flour I buy is produced from white sweet potatoes, not the orange/red variety, it will undoubtedly be different to some extent. IMHO, it wouldn't work similarly enough to enable following the rest of the recipe. If nothing else, it would account for a considerable amount of the water, and determining the ratio seems problematic. I can say however, that once I tried sweet potato flour, there was no turning back to any starches or sweet rice flour. I think it works very well for many things.

Apparently, sweet potato flour was used to stretch wheat flour during a wartime wheat shortage.

[irish daveyboy]

............A pinch of ground ginger helps reduce the taste of the bean flours........

I always add 1/2 tsp of ground white pepper to my breads, it imparts a unique flavour.

Best Regards,

David

[Takala]

Bump.

see cbill's post about experimenting with adding psyllium to pre made gluten free bread mixes and getting better results and getting rid of the gummy center.

Psyllium Aids Rising and Reduces Moist Center of Bread 11/8/2010

[OHgal]

Wow! Thanks, Riceguy, for directing me to this thread. My head is spinning from all the info!

I'll have to get some pysllium to try. However I don't have the sweet potato or sorghum flours, and I'm avoiding any bean-y flours because DD has soy as well as wheat allergies. This is what I have to work with:

brown rice flour

millet flour

potato flour

tapioca flour

oat flour (gluten-free)

corn starch

Could you suggest a good combo to use in your recipe? Thanks in advance!

[pocketrocket]

Hi Rice Guy,

Was very interested in your discovery of psyllium and wondered if you would share your bread recipe??

Desperate for some decent bread.

Pocket rocket

Hi everyone.

I can no longer hold back what I've discovered. Though I'm still experimenting with it, I think I've got enough figured out to post about it. The excitement is making me bananas!

While comparing the results of using guar gum to xanthan gum in breads, I noticed that guar gum seems to allow for a much higher rise. However, it wouldn't stay up through the baking cycle. It seems to develop "fissures" which allow the air/steam to escape, thus the dough starts to deflate. Further experimentation suggests to me that bread dough made with xanthan has to be very soft in order for it to rise satisfactorily. I've concluded that the elastic nature of xanthan is the reason. That is, as the bread rises, the xanthan stretches, and becomes tight like a rubber band. Eventually, the tension prevents further rising. But the softer the dough, the more it can rise before the elasticity impedes the process.

The problem I've found with a very soft dough is that it remains too soft/soggy inside. So there's a balancing act - get as much rise as you can without making the inside soggy. Never have I gotten very good results this way.

So I was then on a quest to find some way to help the guar gum not crack, but still allow the dough to fully rise. After many experiments (and many disappointing results), I landed upon something which has yielded consistently wonderful results!

The answer? Psyllium husk! Using a combination of guar gum and ground psyllium husk, the dough actually rises to 4x the original height! Yes, quadruple! And it stays up too The texture is amazing, with the average hole about 4mm in diameter (about the size of coriander seed). It's not soggy or gummy at all. In fact, it is firm enough for spreads, and does not compress into a dense gummy thing when cut or bitten into. Rather, it springs back up like a sponge! But it has a more bread-like texture than anything I've been able to achieve before. It has "tooth", so bitting off a piece actually feels like bread, not cake.

If that weren't enough, the breads I make are based on whole grain flours, not starches. So they're nutritious, not just a bunch of empty carbs. That being the case, I don't know if starches would even work in such a recipe, not that it matters!

While playing with different flours, I found some do work better than others. However, there seems to be quite a lot of latitude there. I haven't had to stick to one specific blend to get good results.

Here's an example of a blend which I know works:

2 parts teff flour

3 parts sorghum flour

3 parts sweet potato flour

The teff flour imparts an inviting aroma and good flavor. You can transpose the amounts of teff and sorghum. Additional teff will give the bread a more substantial crust.

The amount of guar gum and psyllium seems to be equal, at approximately one tsp each per cup of flour. Some slight adjustment may be necessary for some blends, but I'm still experimenting.

Add only enough water to make a nice, stiff dough. Stiffer than mashed potatoes. I think something like the consistency of semi-soft cream cheese might be about right, or maybe like cookie dough. The flour blend may also impact the optimal amount of water.

I haven't yet made a positive determination as to whether apple cider vinegar helps or not, only that too much seems to reduce the maximum achievable height. So if you add any, my suggestion would be something less than 1/2 tsp per cup of flour. Leaving it out has not ruined the results thus far.

As you may know, typical gluten-free breads are generally risen to double before baking. However, I have found that when using the guar/psyllium combo, optimal results are achieved when the dough is allowed to rise to around 3.75x or more. There is little additional rise once baking begins, but it does usually reach slightly above 4x, then it settles back to about 4x.

Something else which is different about this, is that the dough rises more evenly, instead of bulging up mostly in the middle. The finished bread is therefore very flat on top. But, the edges sorta get drawn in, creating a peculiar "step" around the perimeter. I find that giving the dough a slightly convex (rounded) top to start with is better than making it flat.

That about covers everything I've learned thus far. I will post more details as I figure them out. I'd love to hear how this method works for you! Try it and post back!

[sa1937]

I haven't seen Rice Guy post for quite awhile but he certainly is a baking guru! And I've completely forgotten about adding psyllium to bread recipes even though I bought some after reading this thread. Thanks for the reminder! I need to try it again.

I have made Buckwheat Bread, which I think is really good. http://www.celiac.co...uckwheat-bread/ Scroll down to message #40 for the revised version.

I've also made a couple of bread recipes from Gluten-Free Baking Classics by Annalise Roberts that I like a lot.

[Takala]

LOL, Sylvia, I did the same thing, and was looking at the psyllium recently and wondering if it was time to start playing with it.

A recipe for the full size loaf that Mrs P came up with, using teff, sorghum, sweet potato flour, and psyllium, is on this page here post #41. At four cups gluten-free flours that would make a BIG loaf, somebody may want to try a smaller version first, by cutting it down in half, to see how it goes.

Here, I'll do it

Half Recipe of Mrs P's Rice Guy Inspired Teff Sweet Potato Bread

1/2 cup teff

3/4 cup sorghum flour

3/4 cup sweet potato flour

this would give you 2 cups of flour

then 1/2 tablespoon yeast so that is 1 and 1/2 teaspoons yeast

2 teasp guar gum

2 teasp psyllium powder

1/2 tablespoon sea salt so that is 1 and 1/2 teaspoons salt.

1 cup warm water

1/2 teasp. apple cider vinegar

beat with mixer for 3 minutes

spoon into oiled and rice floured bread pan ( I think an 8" smaller sized one would work )

dough should be thick, smooth it with wet spoon or fingers into the pan

let rise aprox 40 minutes, until more than doubled - put in warm place, cover loosely

Baked at 375

[sa1937]

LOL, Sylvia, I did the same thing, and was looking at the psyllium recently and wondering if it was time to start playing with it.

Takala, of course it's time to start playing with psyllium! lol And I need to do the same. I'd like to try Mrs. P's recipe as I bought both ivory teff and sweet potato flour from Barry Farms, as well as psyllium and guar gum. Thanks for converting the recipe to a smaller size so I don't have to.

I think 4 cups of flour would definitely make a humongous loaf or two loaves using 8-1/2 x 4-1/2" pans. I just pulled out Annalise Roberts' cookbook and both her sandwich bread and multi-grain sandwich bread recipes call for 2 cups of flour. Those recipes also call for 3 Tbsp. of oil. I think I'd be tempted to use a packet of dry yeast, which is actually 2-1/4 tsp. One thing different with the recipe you posted...it doesn't call for any starch, which gluten-free breads usually call for. ???

[RiceGuy]

Well, it has certainly been awhile, and I've made some promising progress. I used the same ratios to bake a full loaf (4x8 pyrex pan), and it turned out just as well as the small buns have.

The current overall best recipe thus far is:

3 parts sweet potato flour

3 parts sorghum flour

2 parts yellow pea flour

1 tsp guar gum per cup of total flour

1 tsp ground psyllium husk per cup of total flour

I also add some salt, and a pinch of ground ginger which improves the taste. I also think that a pinch of onion powder improves the taste.

Experimenting with garbanzo flour has shown me that it helps create an even lighter texture than the pea flour, but I'm not happy with the taste of it. More sweet potato flour can make it lighter too, but I prefer a hardier texture anyway.

Now, the main reason for this update is to report what I've thus far determined about getting a satisfactorily tall loaf. Since the dough does far better when covered while rising, it limits the height to that of the pan. Though some additional height is usually achieved during baking, it does not result in that much more. So I'm thinking this needs a taller pan. I have seen some which actually come with a cover that slides into groves in the rim, though so far I've only found aluminum ones. There were also a set of ventilation holes on the bottom, but I don't know if that would have a negative impact on the results. The only other idea I have to gain more height with the pyrex pan is to add baking powder, so that it might possibly be able to do more rising during baking. I will be trying that once I get more flour.

[RiceGuy]

I am happy to report some new findings and further progress on this topic!

Firstly, I've found that, given sufficient time, gluten-free dough seems to loose a discernible amount of cohesion while rising. Meaning that the dough can't hold the bubbles so well after too much time has past. Therefore, a faster rise can result in a higher one, as there is greater structural integrity. I suspect perhaps there are enzymes created by the yeast, which over time break down some of the cohesive properties of the dough. As of this post, I have decreased the duration of rising from about 45 minutes to only 25 minutes, using a higher temperature. I only wish I had a thermometer to measure the temperature I'm using. All I can say is that the pan gets very warm. Not hot, but quite warm to the touch. Like the hood of a car on a warm sunny day. Nearly enough to make you pull your hand away, but tolerable. From what I've read, bread yeast can survive in temperatures up to about 130°F. The optimal temperature for yeast to grow seems to vary depending on who you believe, but 90°F-100°F appears to be a safe general guideline. I use ordinary bread yeast, not the "instant" stuff.

According to Open Original Shared Link, yeast cells leak glutathione if the temp is too low, which effects the dough. That page has a few other helpful tidbits about yeast and temperature too.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, I use the oven to rise the dough. Since most ovens apparently do not have such a low heat setting, you could turn it on briefly every 5 minutes or something. For the 25 minutes it should take to rise, it doesn't seem to be a very laborious process.

Secondly, I believe I have found a simple method of overcoming the limitation in height imposed by the covered pan during rising. It may in fact have everything to do with the shorter rise time, though I admit I hadn't tried this idea with the current recipe before that. Surprisingly, it seems that the dough doesn't dry out too much if the cover is removed only after the dough is very near the top of the pan. So given more dough, it can then rise above the rim, making for a sufficiently tall "sandwich" type loaf! I do anticipate a slight bit more water may be required to compensate for the additional evaporation, and it may be loaf-size-dependent, though I've yet to determine any amounts.

Something else which seems to be very consistent in my experiments, is that the maximum achievable height is more accurately a function of the volume of dry flour than the prepared dough. In other words, although adding more water to the dough will increase its volume, the dough will not be able to expand beyond a certain level in the pan. And that level is better predicted by the volume of dry flour. One reason for this is that more water means more steam will be produced during baking, thus more of the rise must occur then, rather than before baking. Otherwise it will expand too much, and collapse. While it is true that a dough which is too stiff will not be able to fully rise, extra soft dough doesn't equal extra rise. There just needs to be enough water to allow for optimal rise. More than that will result in too much moisture remaining after baking. There's a fine line between very moist bread and soggy bread which falls after baking.

So I'm finding that as I experiment with different amounts of water, the optimal rise is still related to the volume of flour. However, different recipes can differ in their max heights. Some flours allow for a little more height than others. The same is true for binders, and combinations of flours and binders. The binders in use here (guar gum & psyllium husk) seems to be capable of reaching about 4x with certain flour combinations, though the structure, texture, and moisture of the finished bread is not always to my particular preference. I think a finished height of about 3.75x may be more within reasonable expectations, with the recipe given in earlier posts.

Now, with the amount of water I'm using, the dough will rise a bit more during baking. Optimal rise height before baking is approximately 3x the volume of dry flour. The dough typically rises to about 4x within the first ten minutes of baking. Then, as water is evaporated out, the dough (more like bread at this point) shrinks slightly, finishing at around 3.8x. Again, optimal pre-baked and finished height does depend on the blend of flours too.

The ratio of water to flour for most of the blends given in previous posts is about 3:4. So you can calculate the water by dividing the volume of flour in cups by 1.333333333333. Or, divide by 4 and multiply by 3.

To sum it all up, if you want a loaf which is 4 inches high, divide 4 by 3.75, which is about 1.07 inches or 27mm. So you'd basically want to start with enough dry flour to reach slightly over an inch deep in the pan. Now fill the pan up to that level with water, then transfer it to a measuring cup. That is the amount of flour you'll need. Then take the volume of flour in cups divided by 1.333333333333. For example, 3 cups of flour will require 2-1/4 (2.25) cups of water.

Lastly, I'm finally closing in on my long-sought-after crispy/crackly crust. And with this, a decent pizza crust, along with some delightful "English muffins". Considering these and all the other recipes which I haven't posted about, I do believe I will have to publish a gluten-free cookbook after all.

[freeatlast]

So, what temperature do you turn your oven onto before you cut it off? I've never made yeast bread before, but am willing to give it a shot. Can get the sweet potato flour and hopefully the yellow pea flour at the Asian market.

[freeatlast]

So, here is the half recipe with riceguy's latest changes. I hope I got them all. Will wait for riceguy's comments; hopefully he'll yea or nay the latest (we'll still buy your cookbook, though ). Don't know if adding white pepper WITH ginger and onion powder would be a good idea, but added anyway for the brave experimenters.

Half Recipe of Mrs P's Rice Guy Inspired No- Longer-Teff Sweet Potato Bread

1/2 cup yellow pea flour

3/4 cup sorghum flour

3/4 cup sweet potato flour

1 ½ teaspoons yeast (bread yeast, not the "instant" stuff)

2 teasp guar gum

2 teasp psyllium powder

1 ½ teaspoons salt

½ t ginger

½ t onion powder

½ t white pepper (from Irish DaveyBoy)

1 cup warm water

1/2 teasp. apple cider vinegar

beat with mixer for 3 minutes

spoon into oiled and rice floured bread pan ( I think an 8" smaller sized one would work )

dough should be thick, smooth it with wet spoon or fingers into the pan

let rise aprox 25 minutes, until more than doubled - put in warm place, cover loosely

Baked at 375ºF for one hour - now, with a smaller amount, this may vary - says the top will not brown much at all

test with knife or thermometer to see if done (therm. @ 200 degrees )

[sa1937]

RiceGuy, have you ever used sparkling water in any of your bread experiments? I've run across that suggestion several times...supposedly to give bread a better "lift"?

FWIW, King Arthur Flour has a 9x4x4" loaf pan. "Taller, narrower 9" x 4" x 4"-deep pan is ideal for gluten-free yeast loaves, which require more support as they rise and bake. The extra-tall sides on this pan offer that added support, creating a beautifully shaped loaf, ideal for sandwiches".

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[RiceGuy]

So, here is the half recipe with riceguy's latest changes. I hope I got them all. Will wait for riceguy's comments; hopefully he'll yea or nay the latest (we'll still buy your cookbook, though ). Don't know if adding white pepper WITH ginger and onion powder would be a good idea, but added anyway for the brave experimenters.

Half Recipe of Mrs P's Rice Guy Inspired No- Longer-Teff Sweet Potato Bread

1/2 cup yellow pea flour

3/4 cup sorghum flour

3/4 cup sweet potato flour

1

[RiceGuy]

So, what temperature do you turn your oven onto before you cut it off? I've never made yeast bread before, but am willing to give it a shot. Can get the sweet potato flour and hopefully the yellow pea flour at the Asian market.

My oven's temperature control goes down to "warm", so I don't have to monitor it. Probably the only good thing about that piece of junk.

I'd suggest to experiment a bit. Try one minute, then wait two minutes, and feel the glass. Should be warm like a window with the sun shining on it. Adjust the time as needed, and you'll soon have a pretty good idea how to maintain a decent temp for the rising. The dough won't absorb or lose heat too fast, so if the temp strays off, it should be ok as long as you catch it before too long.