Jump to content
This site uses cookies. Continued use is acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. More Info... ×
  • Welcome to Celiac.com!

    You have found your celiac tribe! Join us and ask questions in our forum, share your story, and connect with others.




  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A1):



    Celiac.com Sponsor (A1-M):


  • Get Celiac.com Updates:
    Support Our Content
    eNewsletter
    Donate

Confused About Casein


rogue

Recommended Posts

rogue Rookie

After being gluten free for nearly 6 years, it turns out that I'm still having problems absorbing vitamins and found out that I don't absorb zinc or folic acid, along with my malabsorption of B12. It caused a sluggish thyroid, among other problems. It might be that I have a problem with dairy. After a 3-month trip to China, my digestion improved ten-fold and I realized that I don't consume milk products there, aside from chocolate. So I cut most dairy from my diet and my digestion improved, though I'm not yet sure about the malabsorption. But I'm confused as to the root of the problem. My main symptom with dairy appears to be constipation- but I'm having severe fatigue issues as well (though that might be my battle with the thyroid.)

I suppose my main questions are:

1. Can casein cause a similar immunological reaction in the same way gluten would for Celiacs (meaning only needs to be absorbed into my bloodstream) or is it more like an intolerance and must go through my digestive tract?

2. My sublingual vitamins use lactose as a binder. Is it possible to separate lactose from casein?

I suppose I'm just confused about why Celiacs go on a casein-free diet to begin with if it doesn't cause a similar immune response. Is it merely an intolerance or is it something a little more sinister? I have several other food intolerances but they don't usually bother me unless I eat a lot of it. But I only need to lick an envelope with gluten on it to get sick.

I'm confused! Help!

  • 1 month later...

Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):
Celiac.com Sponsor (A8):



Celiac.com Sponsor (A8-M):



kitchen-chemist Newbie

After being gluten free for nearly 6 years, it turns out that I'm still having problems absorbing vitamins and found out that I don't absorb zinc or folic acid, along with my malabsorption of B12. It caused a sluggish thyroid, among other problems. It might be that I have a problem with dairy. After a 3-month trip to China, my digestion improved ten-fold and I realized that I don't consume milk products there, aside from chocolate. So I cut most dairy from my diet and my digestion improved, though I'm not yet sure about the malabsorption. But I'm confused as to the root of the problem. My main symptom with dairy appears to be constipation- but I'm having severe fatigue issues as well (though that might be my battle with the thyroid.)

I suppose my main questions are:

1. Can casein cause a similar immunological reaction in the same way gluten would for Celiacs (meaning only needs to be absorbed into my bloodstream) or is it more like an intolerance and must go through my digestive tract?

2. My sublingual vitamins use lactose as a binder. Is it possible to separate lactose from casein?

I suppose I'm just confused about why Celiacs go on a casein-free diet to begin with if it doesn't cause a similar immune response. Is it merely an intolerance or is it something a little more sinister? I have several other food intolerances but they don't usually bother me unless I eat a lot of it. But I only need to lick an envelope with gluten on it to get sick.

I'm confused! Help!

From what I've read, the protein structure of casein is similar enough to gluten to cause an immune response in some people. Considering that individuals make unique antibodies and not everyone reacts as severely, not all Celiac sufferers have a problem with dairy. Unfortunately, it seems that I do. I'm new to the the world of Celiac's, but I have a degree in chemistry, a minor in bio, and I'm in graduate school for medicinal chemistry. It helps being able to understand the molecular biology aspect. Lactose is a milk sugar that can be refined and, yes, separated from the protein portion of milk. Lactose intolerance is common among Celiac patients b/c of the damage to the small intestines, where the enzyme lactase is made. Some people, like my son, regain the ability to drink milk after going gluten-free. For me, lactose free/gluten-free dair still produced gluten-like symptoms, albeit milder than those from wheat.

So, in creative lay-man's terms:

Your antibodies are skeleton keys that match to gluten. If you are unlucky, then your key may also fit casein, but maybe not as well.

Not all casein is the same either. (cow, sheep, goat, etc) I haven't tried goat's milk or cheese yet, but plan to. I rather hope it's okay, b/c I'm very fond of dairy.

I hope this helps.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A19):



  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      128,867
    • Most Online (within 30 mins)
      7,748

    Amxjo
    Newest Member
    Amxjo
    Joined

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A20):


  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      121.1k
    • Total Posts
      71.3k

  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A22):





  • Celiac.com Sponsor (A21):



  • Upcoming Events

  • Posts

    • Scott Adams
      Most likely cross-contamination I believe.
    • cristiana
      I think it takes different people different amounts of time, but in my own case I had pain,  bloating and loose stools for some time, exacerbated by a lactose intolerance, which eventually went.  I would say the really bad diarrhea got better quite quickly, but the bloating pain carried on for a few months, until I was told to give up lactose for a few weeks.  That helped enormously and once I realised milk and yoghurt was the cause, after a short break I went back to lactose very gradually and felt a lot better.  Now I can tolerate it well. From Coeliac UK "The enzyme lactase is found in the brush border of the small intestine. This is why people with coeliac disease can be deficient in lactase at diagnosis. Once established on a gluten free diet, the gut is able to heal and lactose digestion returns to normal. Lactose intolerance is therefore usually temporary." So if this helps your daughter, this doesn't mean you have to give up lactose forever, especially as dairy is such a good source of calcium for growing kids.   Bear in mind you should be able to reintroduce it. As for fatigue, this can be due to vitamin and mineral deficiencies,such as iron, vitamin D and B12.  Were these levels tested?  If not, I would suggest you get them done.  If your daughter is deficient in these, it is vital you address the deficiencies, and get the tests redone in a few months, particularly the iron, because too much can be dangerous.
    • knitty kitty
      Hello,   The medication in these inhalers can cause a thiamine deficiency if used by someone already low in thiamine.  We don't absorb sufficient amounts of vitamins and minerals due to the inflammation and damage done to our villi in Celiac Disease.  Even a long term strict gluten free diet may not provide sufficient amounts of vitamins and minerals.  There are eight B vitamins that all work together.  Thiamine deficiency often shows up first because our bodies use so much of it and it can't be stored very long. Thiamine deficiency symptoms can appear in as little as three days.  Without thiamine, the other B vitamins may not be able to function properly.   Thiamine is needed to clear lactic acid accumulation caused by the inhalers: Shoshin beriberi provoked by the inhalation of salbutamol https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12951730/    Significant Lactic Acidosis from Albuterol https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5965110/ Albuterol-Induced Type B Lactic Acidosis: Not an Uncommon Finding https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7263006/ Lessons of the month 1: Salbutamol induced lactic acidosis: clinically recognised but often forgotten https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6964186/ An Overview of Type B Lactic Acidosis Due to Thiamine (B1) Deficiency https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10731935/   Thiamine has antifungal and antibacterial properties.  Thiamine helps keep Candida in check.  Thiamine helps keep SIBO in check.  Thiamine helps with black mold, Aspergillis infection.  Riboflavin helps fight Candida infection in the mouth. Riboflavin Targets the Cellular Metabolic and Ribosomal Pathways of Candida albicans In Vitro and Exhibits Efficacy against Oropharyngeal Candidiasis https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36625571/   Thiamine deficiency can make ones voice hoarse and can cause localized edema.  Niacin deficiency can make ones voice hoarse.  (Niacin deficiency and Thiamine deficiency can each cause irritability, agitation, and lability.) Hoarseness in pellagra https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21507655/ Hidden Hunger: A Pellagra Case Report https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8152714/   Anesthesia can cause B12 deficiency.  B12 deficiency can show up as mouth sores and geographic tongue, diarrhea, and dementia. Vitamin deficiency, a neglected risk factor for post-anesthesia complications: a systematic review https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11823251/ Neurologic degeneration associated with nitrous oxide anesthesia in patients with vitamin B12 deficiency https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8250714/ Subacute combined degeneration of the spinal cord following nitrous oxide anesthesia: A systematic review of cases https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30144777/ The Effect of Vitamin B12 Infusion on Prevention of Nitrous Oxide-induced Homocysteine Increase: A Double-blind Randomized Controlled Trial https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4052402/     Eating a diet that is heavy in carbohydrates can precipitate a thiamine deficiency.  As the amount of carbohydrates consumed increases, additional thiamine is needed, otherwise the carbs will be stored as fat.   Thiamine deficiency disorders: a clinical perspective https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8451766/   Hiding in Plain Sight: Modern Thiamine Deficiency https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8533683/   The deficiency symptoms of some of the B vitamins cause gastrointestinal symptoms that resemble the same symptoms as when being glutened.   Thiamine deficiency can present as vomiting, diarrhea and abdominal pain (Gastrointestinal Beriberi).  Niacin deficiency can present as diarrhea (Pellagra = diarrhea, dermatitis, dementia, then death ).  B12 deficiency can present as diarrhea or dementia.  Not everything is caused by hidden gluten.  Gluten free processed foods are not required to be enriched with vitamins lost in processing like gluten containing foods are. Blood tests are not accurate measurements of vitamin levels, but do talk to your doctor and nutritionist about supplementing with the eight B vitamins, Vitamin C, the four fat soluble vitamins and minerals like magnesium.  Your physician can give you a shot of B12 before anesthesia administration.   By the way, Celiac Disease genes have been traced back to having originated in Neanderthals.  I'm not a singing teacher on the net.  I earned a degree in Microbiology after studying nutrition because I wanted to know what vitamins are doing inside the body.  I've experienced nutritional deficiencies myself. Hope this helps!  Keep us posted on your progress!
    • trents
      Welcome to the forum, @jnstefan! She should start feeling better within a week or two if she is truly avoiding gluten and if she isn't also showing intolerance to other foods. It is quite common for celiacs to be dairy intolerant (not just the lactose but the protein casein in dairy) and to oats (protein is avenin). Casein and avenin have structures similar to gluten. We call this cross reactivity (not to be confused with cross contamination). So, you might look at pulling these two food items from her diet to see if there is improvement. But achieving a gluten free state is more challenging than people realize when the first start in. It is hidden in so many foods you would never expect to find it in like soy sauce and canned tomato soup, just to site two examples. This might help:  
    • jnstefan
      My 10 year old daughter was diagnosed with Celiac 2 weeks ago. We've been on gluten free diet now for 2 weeks. She still experiences abdominal pain at times , and is struggling with fatigue. What is everyone's experience with how long it takes for the body to heal and stabilize after starting the gluten free diet? Thanks for any feedback!
×
×
  • Create New...