Fruit And Vegetables

[BakingQueen]

Your post almost got lost with all the bickering. I found that I reacted to coatings on apples quite early on, while I was still eating more processed foods. I do better getting them from the market from farmers who don't use coatings. What I do is buy double of everything and process half to eat later. I also concentrate on eating in season.

I couldn't get the waxes off by washing. They seem to transfer to the part you eat (to a very small degree but still too much for me) when peeling.

Broccoli wasn't a problem initially. I now grow my own.

Open air produce can be a problem if there is an active bakery nearby, or if there are a lot of customers eating gluten and handling veggies.

At this point the only produce I know of that I can tolerate from the supermarket are organic carrots which come in bags, a hydroponically grown lettuce which comes in a plastic container, one company's greenhouse grown peppers which come in a bag, and bananas which are out in the open. When I was eating more supermarket produce, I sometimes found that organic were better, and sometimes non organic. I had to do elimination diets on everything to figure it out.

I hope that you see an improvement in your health.

Thank you so much! I find that bagged organic carrots, celery and bananas seem to be fine. I sometimes wash root veggies like potatoes with soap and scrub them. Do you that is enough to remove the gluten? I don't have much fruit and vegetables in my diet because I seem to react so often. I have a lot of hope that my diet can be full of these things without worry. Also, how do I wash berries, I don't think I can scrub those? It's great that you grow some of your produce, I would love to do that but I wouldn't even know where to start. Sorry for all of the questions. I am not new to celiac, but I am very new to super sensitivity.

[T.H.]

I sometimes wash root veggies like potatoes with soap and scrub them. Do you that is enough to remove the gluten?

For some, definitely. Some need to peel it as well, and some wash it again after peeling, if that didn't do the trick.

And goodness...I had a lovely, long post for this before, and forgot that I'd never finished it when my computer crashed last night! >_< So sorry!

Also, how do I wash berries, I don't think I can scrub those?

That's one I have not been able to figure out yet. Just so small and difficult to get into all the crevices, you know? But just in terms of potential straw issues, I'm almost positive that there is a common berry grower that uses plastic instead of straw for the strawberries, at least...umm, Driscolls, i think? Might be different for organic version vs. conventional, though. If you contact the company, they should be able to tell you on that one. :-)

[mushroom]

I'm almost positive that there is a common berry grower that uses plastic instead of straw for the strawberries, at least...umm, Driscolls, i think? Might be different for organic version vs. conventional, though. If you contact the company, they should be able to tell you on that one. :-)

All lthe strawberroes I saw growing in the Santa Cruz area of California were grown on plastic - straw is just too difficult to handle, I would think.

[Gemini]

My Dearest Gemini I do beg to differ on this point.

Open Original Shared Link

The above is a link to a study on the Soy Protein being found in the egg yolks of chickens fed a soy based diet. If the Soy Protein can get there then it isn't that big of a stretch to think that the Gluten Protein could get there and I can tell you from personal experience with my own chickens that there is something to this. I feed them a grain/soy free diet and can eat as many of their eggs as I want without getting brain fogged or a stomach ache. I have a limit of 3 store bought (organic free range/cage free) eggs every few days otherwise.

So if chickens are what they eat, and humans are what we eat, then why is it such a stretch to think that plants are what they eat? And if what they are eating is the gluten protein then...

I also had a first hand experience with something similar in my tomato garden this year. I spread jalapeno juice at the base of the plants to keep the bunnies away. It worked wonderfully but to my surprise my cherry tomatoes had a spicey taste to them, at least the first few handfuls that I harvested. It was interesting and quite tasty.

Let's make sure that we are keeping all of this science and logic based and not just in the realm of wishful thinking. Doing so does a disservice to the people of this forum and is a good way to keep people unnecessarily sick.

Of course it is possible that the internet and my tastebuds are "all in my head."

My dearest Cypressmyst...I too, beg to differ on your point. While I do not doubt that if I ate soy protein it would most assuredly turn up in my pooh, it would only be a problem if I was allergic or intolerant of soy and ate the pooh! Based on your statements, anyone with a soy intolerance should never eat eggs, meat, chicken, etc. I guess all of us sensitive Celiacs who eat veggies and meats, etc., that could have been susceptible to contamination at the growing stage, are miraculous healers! Using your logic, no one with Celiac would ever heal if this were true. Remember, a person can be totally asymptomatic yet still have high levels of damage to their small intestine. I think there are a lot of people who don't quite understand the science behind this disease.

I am in no way insinuating that you all are not having a problem with certain foods or imaging your reactions because I do believe you when you say you are still sick. But many Celiacs take forever to heal and stay sick for a very long time and it has nothing to do with fertilizer that was used to grow the veggies. But, then again, I work in the science field and my belief system is based in logic and experience, not the internet. Wishful thinking has no place in this and your science is totally unproven. There are still many who believe that gluten can be absorbed through the skin but that has been disproved. The molecule is just too large. That's science.

[IrishHeart]

I just want to point out that plants don't have to uptake gluten from the soil for gluten in fertilizer to be a problem. The edible parts of the plant can easily come into contact with the soil directly or indirectly through wind or animal transfer.

For what it's worth...my husband, a chemist with 30+ years experience, thinks transfer ONTO the plant is more feasible than the plant taking it up through the roots.

He also suspects the jalapeno juice was somehow possibly tranferred to the tomatoes themselves (like by wind transfer ?? ) rather than actually absorbed into the soil and then absorbed by the roots of the plant. Steric hindrance would prevent a molecule that large from entering the roots of the plant.

He explained more about ionization, but it got complicated for me...

(as a total aside...If all the theories about absorption from poopy/fertilizer is correct, then why wouldn't we just spread chocolate and have everything taste so yummy? )

I do NOT doubt for a single second, however, that so many of you are feeling ill after ingesting some foods. I still feel "off" sometimes and it's NOT from GLUTEN because I would have the awful brain stuff re-emerge and be living in the bathroom, etc.

Is it possible that you guys are just feeling ill from something else? Pesticides or other contaminants?

Are your antibodies still high?? Is that how you know these foods are gluten-tainted ? I'm just asking, not doubting your experiences or arguing.

I am still learning all the nuances of this and want to know how/why this can possibly happen.

Gluten molecules penetrating into fruits and veggies that have skins that may have been touched at some point by a farm hand who ate a sandwich seems pretty incredible to me (although I suppose anything is possible in this crazy a$s world--I mean, I never thought a little food protein would nearly kill me either ), but even that is more probable than gluten molecules in poop being sucked up into a plant.

If anyone has any scientific evidence of this, my hubby would be very interested in reading it. Thanks.

[pricklypear1971]

I have no idea why or how but it's common knowledge that companion planting influences tastes of fruit/veggie producing plants. I'd have to dig out all of my stuff (which I'm not gonna do) but certain produce is more negatively affected than others (and certain plants are more guilty of causing it than others).

It's also very likely that "stuff" sticks to the outside skin of produce - whether it be vegetable, mineral, organic, synthetic...."stuff" meant to keep pests away, most likely, and a lot of these "stuffs" have something sticky in them - so it doesn't fall off the plant (so it can do its job).

It's very likely this "stuff" can cause problems for many people, and it's possible at least some of this stuff has gluten in it.

Harvesting produce doesn't miraculously remove this "stuff". Some people are more sensitive than others and need to take extra steps.

Why the heck is everybody arguing about this?????

[Lisa]

Why the heck is everybody arguing about this?????

No one is arguing...just offering alternative opinions How boring would it be if we agreed on everything.

[IrishHeart]

Why the heck is everybody arguing about this?????

Just my two cents, but I do not see any of this thread as arguing really. I see it as people offering their thoughts based on their experiences and hopefully, readers and new-comers are wise enough to weigh it all and use it or discard it. That's what intelligent people do, right?

I have been reading the forum for over a year. I have seen some pretty "out there" stuff posted and I know when someone is blowing smoke.

That is not the case here. There is a difference of opinion and the posts are eliciting more questions than answers.

I also know that NOT EVERYONE has the same level of sensitivity. I am a pretty sensitive celiac myself (the kind that cannot inhale air borne flour without getting dizzy. ) but washing my fruits and veggies is sufficiently safe for me, so I am trying to understand how it is not for someone else.

What's most important on a site like this, however, is to provide proof when someone states something without the caveat IMHO. As so many people come on here looking for answers, it seems to be an implicit obligation to give our best advice based on experience and if possible, evidence.

Most seem to be using the "in my experience" and "in my opinion" statements.

IMHO

[IrishHeart]

I found that I reacted to coatings on apples quite early on, while I was still eating more processed foods. I do better getting them from the market from farmers who don't use coatings.

Stephanie, do you know what is in these coatings on fruits? Has someone in the produce industry written about this? I am curious. Thanks!

[pricklypear1971]

Stephanie, do you know what is in these coatings on fruits? Has someone in the produce industry written about this? I am curious. Thanks!

I've seen it said "food grade wax". Beyond that it's tough to nail down. Perhaps if you call the grower? Maybe Stephanie knows...

I did see organic apples at TJ's labeled as having a coating.

[mushroom]

If you check here: Open Original Shared Link which is taken from the Handbook of Food Preservation, Second Edition, you will find a list of surface coatings, treatments, and edible coatings in food preservation. Not sure how up to date this is.

[IrishHeart]

If you check here: Open Original Shared Link which is taken from the Handbook of Food Preservation, Second Edition, you will find a list of surface coatings, treatments, and edible coatings in food preservation. Now sure how up to date this is.

Thanks, Shroomie

That was interesting. I had thought it was just a thin wax coating. (and I could find no date for this info, but the citations are there)

It does not say how MUCH wheat gluten MAY be used or how often or on what, in particular--which would be more helpful for us consumers

I gave it a quick read and it states:

Wheat gluten (used in coatings) "is soluble in aqueous alcohol" which means it will dissolve in a water and alcohol wash.

That may do the trick for most then?? A wash and a peel.

.....but I am still hard-pressed to believe the poop/osmosis thing.

JMHO

EDITED TO ADD: Now we've got my husband reading about vegetable and fruit coatings ...he found that CANADA is pushing for no gluten in food coatings...go, Canada!!!

[Darn210]

From:

Open Original Shared Link

How are waxes applied?

Waxes are used only in tiny amounts to provide a microscopic coating surrounding the entire product. Each piece of waxed produce has only a drop or two of wax.

Coatings used on fruits and vegetables must meet FDA food additive regulations for safety. Produce shippers and supermarkets in the United States are required by federal law to label fresh fruits and vegetables that have been waxed so you will know whether the produce you buy is coated. Watch for signs that say: "Coated with food-grade vegetable-, petroleum-, beeswax-, or shellac- based wax or resin, to maintain freshness."

If wheat were used in the coating it would have to be called out . . . and apparently any produce that is coated has to have some sort of signage.

[pricklypear1971]

From:

Open Original Shared Link

How are waxes applied?

Waxes are used only in tiny amounts to provide a microscopic coating surrounding the entire product. Each piece of waxed produce has only a drop or two of wax.

Coatings used on fruits and vegetables must meet FDA food additive regulations for safety. Produce shippers and supermarkets in the United States are required by federal law to label fresh fruits and vegetables that have been waxed so you will know whether the produce you buy is coated. Watch for signs that say: "Coated with food-grade vegetable-, petroleum-, beeswax-, or shellac- based wax or resin, to maintain freshness."

If wheat were used in the coating it would have to be called out . . . and apparently any produce that is coated has to have some sort of signage.

I never see signs saying produce has been waxed...when it obviously has been.

The only time I've seen it is on a bag (packed by grower) - said "resin".

[Darn210]

I never see signs saying produce has been waxed...when it obviously has been.

The only time I've seen it is on a bag (packed by grower) - said "resin".

I didn't know that it was suppose to be called out so I never looked for it. I will the next time I go to the grocery store. It obviously isn't big enough to catch your eye without specifically looking for it. I'm assuming it will be in very fine print at the bottom of a sign that you wouldn't think should carry that kind of information. Might have to do a field trip to several grocers tomorrow.

[kareng]

I didn't know that it was suppose to be called out so I never looked for it. I will the next time I go to the grocery store. It obviously isn't big enough to catch your eye without specifically looking for it. I'm assuming it will be in very fine print at the bottom of a sign that you wouldn't think should carry that kind of information. Might have to do a field trip to several grocers tomorrow.

Might be in teeny print on the stickers? Will take a magnifying glass or ask an 8 yr old to read it.

[pricklypear1971]

Might be in teeny print on the stickers? Will take a magnifying glass or ask an 8 yr old to read it.

Bell peppers - tag but nothing about wax, just a bar code and producer name.

Clementines - ON BOTTOM of box but no tag on bag in box.

Cherry tomatoes - no wax info and in little plastic container packed by grower. Not super shiny.

Organic apples - no wax info, but they aren't super shiny. In bag from grower.

Just what I had on hand...

[kareng]

Bell peppers - tag but nothing about wax, just a bar code and producer name.

Clementines - ON BOTTOM of box but no tag on bag in box.

Cherry tomatoes - no wax info and in little plastic container packed by grower. Not super shiny.

Organic apples - no wax info, but they aren't super shiny. In bag from grower.

Just what I had on hand...

Well! That's poopy! ( trying to watch my language).

I'm going to Walmart tomorrow & I'm going to look, too. Some of those apples have enough wax to coat a snowboard! Not the local growers, but their apples don't last until next Sept.

[Mango04]

Interesting facts about lyme disease - so many similarities!

The one thing I'd be curious to know is if an elimination of symptoms can be brought about in Lyme disease by diet change alone? If so, then I would definitely think it's worth testing for in everyone. But if the symptoms will not completely resolve with only the diet change, then it seems more useful for one who is searching for reasons of continuing ill-health.

It was the other way around. The extremely supersensitive people who treated their Lyme disease were eventually able to eat gluten (and many other foods) again, once the Lyme was treated. Of course a diagnosed celiac wouldn't experience the exact same result. Mercury poisoning was another issue that was found to cause hypersensitivity.

The main thread that dealt with these issues did get deleted (it was thousands of pages) but I think these things are really important to consider. A lot of these people found that their hypersensitivity was caused by a different underlying issue. Once the underlying issue was dealt with, the hypersensitivity went away. I guess the main point is: hypersensitivity often seems to be caused by something other than celiac alone. It's worth investigating...

[psawyer]

The main thread that dealt with these issues did get deleted (it was thousands of pages) but I think these things are really important to consider.

We don't delete stuff unless it is in clear violation of our rules.

I think you may be looking for this old discussion.

Perhaps you mean the more Lyme-specific one here.

[dilettantesteph]

Also, we had the cantelope listeria problem (not at my house). Apparently, its very hard to get germs off a cantelope because of all the little divots. M & I LOVE cantelope! They grow well here, so I think we may try some next year.

I have been wondering about this too. I also love cantaloupe, and have been growing my own. I guess listeria occurs naturally in the soil, so what's to say I don't have it in my soil? Does washing and scrubbing get rid of it? If there is a split in the melon do you need to throw it? I was unable to find much information about it's prevention.

[dilettantesteph]

I sometimes wash root veggies like potatoes with soap and scrub them. Do you that is enough to remove the gluten? I don't have much fruit and vegetables in my diet because I seem to react so often. I have a lot of hope that my diet can be full of these things without worry. Also, how do I wash berries, I don't think I can scrub those? It's great that you grow some of your produce, I would love to do that but I wouldn't even know where to start. Sorry for all of the questions. I am not new to celiac, but I am very new to super sensitivity.

I scrub my root veggies with soap too. The root veggies from the area of my garden where I used wheat containing slug bait do not get clean enough with this method for me. I am very sensitive and react anyway. The root veggies from other areas of my garden I tolerate well with this cleaning method. I also tolerate root veggies I get from my farmer which I also scrub with soap.

I don't scrub berries. I swish in soapy water. Driscoll organic have seemed to be the best for my family.

[dilettantesteph]

Is it possible that you guys are just feeling ill from something else? Pesticides or other contaminants?

Of course that is a possibility. I have found that going on the premise that it is gluten has enabled me to get well, and stay well.

That's really all I want: to be healthy.

[dilettantesteph]

Stephanie, do you know what is in these coatings on fruits? Has someone in the produce industry written about this? I am curious. Thanks!

The FDA has stated that they might contain gluten.

Open Original Shared Link

I'm sure that it is at levels considered safe for celiacs.

[dilettantesteph]

Where did my post go? I hope I'm not double posting.

In my store the sign about coatings is in the produce section. It is a small sign and states that the following produce may be coated with food grade vegetable wax: Batata, Cucumber, Eggplant, Grapefruit, Lemons, Limes, Melons, Name, Oranges, Parsnips, Passion Fruit, Peppers, Pineapples, Rutabagas, Squash, Sweet Potatoes, Tangerines, Tomatoes, Turnips, Yautia, Yucca, and a Lac-Resin Coating is used on Apples.

The amounts used should only bother the most sensitive.

Still, if consumers in Canada are pushing for their removal, maybe they know something I don't.