Soybean Family Intolerance

[BeFree]

I'm starting to strongly suspect that I'm now reacting to other foods in the legume family, related to soybeans. Lentils, chick peas, kidney beans, guar gum... Anyone else have this? Is it common? Temporary? Permanent? Any insights at all???

[rosetapper23]

Yes, this is considered common in people with celiac disease. It's called cross-reactivity and can happen when the body begins to mistake other foods for gluten. Dr. Vikki Peterson, a gluten-sensitivity expert, has stated that a person should remove all suspected foods from their diet and then reintroduce them after three months. Usually, that's long enough for the body's immune system to stop misfiring. However, sometimes the sensitivity remains.

[mushroom]

I am almost two years in go my total legume avoidance. Well it may not be totally two years, because I did it in stages and I'm not sure when it finally extended to green beans and green peas But anyway, come March I am going to start working back in reverse order and see if there are legumes I can tolerate now. I will never eat soy again, however; tested positive to that on skin prick testing years ago, as with corn. The others came on gradually after going gluten free before my gut had fully healed, which I sure hope it is now. Since I suspect lectins as being the culprit for me I will take some Lectin Lock at first and then try it without.

[BeFree]

Peanuts seem to be OK for me, but not beans...does this make sense?

[cahill]

At one point all legumes were off limits for me .Recently I have been able to add most legumes back , as long as I rotate them in my diet. The exception being soy.

After being soy free for 15 months I decided to try a small amount of soy oil ( in the form of ranch dressing). The results were disastrous and down right painful.

Needless to say I am now permanently soy free.

[BeFree]

Two questions...

"It's called cross-reactivity and can happen when the body begins to mistake other foods for gluten."

If my body mistakes legumes for gluten, will legumes cause the same intestinal damage that gluten would?

Also, if I end up having to cut out all beans/peas etc, what I should I eat to make up for it in my diet, nutritionally?

Thanks in advance, anyone that knows the answer...

[cahill]

if I end up having to cut out all beans/peas etc, what I should I eat to make up for it in my diet, nutritionally?

I went from being vegan to eating almost paleo in the beginning. Then , at my worst, I was eating mainly ground lamb and rice, there was little else my body could tolerate at that point.Removing the offending foods was the only way for my body to heal.

Nutritionally my body has suffered. Finding good supplements that your body can tolerate is important ,especially while healing.

[mushroom]

Whatever other supplements I am taking, I always take a high spec multivitamin and a multimineral.

[BeFree]

I'm taking a good B complex, because I know that is necessary to make for lack of B-vitamin-enriched breads. But I wonder what I will be lacking without beans and peas....

BTW whoever fixed the spelling on the header on the post thanks...it was irritating me so much that I could not go in and edit that!

[IrishHeart]

Two questions...

"It's called cross-reactivity and can happen when the body begins to mistake other foods for gluten."

If my body mistakes legumes for gluten, will legumes cause the same intestinal damage that gluten would?

This "cross-reactivity" ---is just a theory by a chiropractor. We have had a few discussions about it on here. There is no science behind it, I am afraid.

It is more likely a (hopefully) temporary food intolerance.

No, you are not causing more intestinal damage, hon.

Your body is just reacting to them because digestion is difficult and hopefully, in time, you will be able to tolerate them once more.

Food intolerance usually results from the inability to digest or metabolize a food completely. The symptoms -- gas, bloating, nausea and diarrhea -- overlap those of what we feel with gluten.

Secondary food intolerances are varied, but some common types are lactose (milk sugar) intolerance and impaired complex carbohydrate digestion. Legumes are difficult to digest--even for people without celiac disease or leaky guts.

I have the same thing--soy-- and now, it seems ---all legumes. It's a bummer.

As the others suggest, take them out for a while and try one and see. Elimination and rotation are the only ways to figure it out.

Hang in there! It could just be temporary.

[eatmeat4good]

I'm taking a good B complex, because I know that is necessary to make for lack of B-vitamin-enriched breads. But I wonder what I will be lacking without beans and peas....

BTW whoever fixed the spelling on the header on the post thanks...it was irritating me so much that I could not go in and edit that!

You will only be missing out on extra carbs.

Meat is a better choice for the protein and if you really want the carbs you can replace it with any gluten free grain you want.

I became intolerant of lentils and chickpeas and soy. So I do not eat them at all. Strictly Paleo. Meat, veg, fruit, nuts. It works great and feel wonderful on it. I hope never go back to legumes even if I become able to tolerate them.

[rosetapper23]

IrishHeart,

I hate to disagree with you ('cause you're so sweet and knowledgeable!), but cross-reactivity is discussed in a number of books--I just mentioned the Petersons because they base so much of their practice on it and explain it fully on their website. A book that I rely on a lot for my nutritional information discusses cross-reactivity quite a bit, and the author does NOT reference the Petersons. Cyrex Labs actually tests for cross-reactivity and has a list of the most likely foods that are the possible offenders. Apparently, coffee is the substance that is most likely to be involved with cross-reactivity.

I actually experienced this phenomenon about six months ago when I began reacting to rice and rice flour. My reaction seemed virtually the same as though I'd ingested gluten. I removed ALL grains from my diet for six months, and I only recently began eating rice again--and all is well. I have no negative reaction anymore whatsoever.

I suppose we can agree to disagree....but, for me personally, I'm convinced that cross-reactivity is a fact and not a theory.

[IrishHeart]

IrishHeart,

I hate to disagree with you ('cause you're so sweet and knowledgeable!), but cross-reactivity is discussed in a number of books--

I asked the other person to please tell me the source of this info (besides the Petersens and the DC who runs the lab) and she could not. It became a rather heated discussion and I do not wish to re-create it because I am not into arguing. The thread is in this section if you wish to read it.

I am not saying you did not have a reaction to rice, Rose, I would never suggest such a thing. I am saying that I have not been able to find any valid information that proves the theory of "cross reactivity" with gluten. Why isn't it just called a temporary secondary food intolerance??

I have researched this term over and over and the ONLY sources I find are the Petersons and this DC who runs Cyrex labs. The term Cross-reactivity IS used in allergies, but that is a different subject.

Would you be willing to share the names of those books with me-- as I am willing to read and learn. If nothing else, I am open-minded.

[rosetapper23]

Ah, there's the rub--I believe we're discussing semantics here, IrishHeart. The term "cross-reactivity" appears to be a catch-all term that can be used interchangeably with such other terms as the one you used: "temporary secondary food intolerance." I've noticed that authors use "cross-reactivity" to describe a secondary food intolerance, but they oftentimes ascribe a different reason for why the reaction occurred (e.g., leaky gut, similar molecular structure of foods, etc.). The nutrition book I mentioned is, "Primal Body, Primal Mind," and the author discusses cross-reactivity in several sections of her book, but she doesn't quote a source for the actual term. She simply describes how people with food sensitivities can begin to react negatively to other foods. I looked up the term on Wiki, and there are several articles that discuss it. Yes, one article is very complex and describes an allergic response that is probably not what is being discussed here. However, in another article on Oral Allergy Syndrome, it discusses cross-reactivity as follows:

"In adults up to 60% of all food allergic reactions are due to cross-reactions between foods and inhalative allergens."

MedicineNet.com has this to say about cross-reactivity:

"Cross-reactivity is the occurrence of allergic reactions to foods that are chemically or otherwise related to foods known to cause allergy in an individual. If someone has a life-threatening reaction to a certain food, the doctor will counsel that patient to avoid related foods, which also might induce the same reaction. For example, if a person has a history of a severe allergy to shrimp, he or she can also possibly be allergic to crab, lobster, and crayfish."

Therefore, I believe it is merely a term used loosely to describe these so-called temporary (or permanent) secondary food intolerances.

Just as there are doctors and scientists who don't believe there is such a thing as gluten sensitivity, new terms being used to describe something many of us have experienced and recognize as true medical conditions may take a while to be embraced by the medical community. I realize that you're looking for a medical citation or study, but I do believe the term is simply being applied to describe a medical condition that has different causes. Whether such a condition exists (secondary food sensitivities), I believe it's indisputable; however, I don't know if the medical community has caught up with what is happening and has done a full-blown study on it.

Really...it's just semantics. Can we hug and make up now?

[BeFree]

No fighting in my thread! J/K

The only word I can focus on in all of the info above is "temporary"...I don't care what this bean reaction is called, as long as it's temporary!

[IrishHeart]

I was never fighting with ROSE...I am no fighter, I'm a Lover!

I do not think that calling a food intolerance a "cross-reaction" is the same as the accepted medical condition called cross-reactions in ALLERGIES. It is not a matter of semantics because they are not the same medical condition at all.

I have read all the info about the TERM cross-reactivity that is available and it is used to describes food/oral allergies-which are anaphylactic in nature.

For example, if someone is allergic to birch trees, they may also "cross-react" when eating apples. That's how the term is used.

Those are IgE- mediated and not the same mechanism as food intolerances which are IgG.

So I am so sorry, but I will have to beg to differ and say there is nothing scientific or clinical that validates the concept that "the body mistakes other foods for gluten."

Does the body also acquire other food intolerances because of celiac or a leaky gut? Yes. Lactose, in particular, and often soy, corn and others. Why? The villi are damaged and digestion is impaired.

However, Carol McCarthy Shilson, Executive Director of The University of Chicago Celiac Disease Center was asked if she knew of any research supporting gluten-associated cross-reactive food. Carol was emphatic that there is no research supporting claims of gluten-associated cross-reactive foods.

There is no clinical data showing how patients have responded to the removal of the "cross-reactive foods" these people claim are "like gluten". I looked. And looked.

(Please read the thread called "Vikki Peterson and CR" for the extensive research Skylark provided.)

Can you resolve a food intolerance? Yes! Is it often temporary? YES! How long does it take? Sadly, no one can predict that. Do some people never regain the ability to digest certain foods? TOTAL BUMMER but yes. I know many celiacs who are still lactose and soybean intolerant years after DX. I may be one of them if things don't turn around soon.

The advice is spot on--Take it out. Try it again later.

Not arguing, just clarifying. I do not like newly Dxed people to be fearful that they are not healing or that extensive damage is being done to their villi because they think the body somehow "views other foods like gluten."

and Rosetapper? (hugs) to you. All due respect.

Cheers,

IH

[rosetapper23]

IrishHeart,

I agree with your statements relating to new posters on the Forum, and I'll try to follow your lead on that (and remind me if I should slip).

That said, from my readings, I see that the term "cross-reactivity" is largely described as a viewpoint, one that is taken by alternative and functional medicine practitioners....and this is probably where we disagree. Having consulted with these types of practitioners in the past because of celiac, cancer, and spinal issues, I've come to respect their body of work. They also tend to have a large presence at annual conferences on gluten intolerance and celiac, so I'm accustomed to learning of their viewpoints through lectures.

We may not be able to reconcile our different "viewpoints" on this one, my friend, but I'll always issue virtual hugs where you're concerned...

[raqiroo uk]

Yes, this is considered common in people with celiac disease. It's called cross-reactivity and can happen when the body begins to mistake other foods for gluten. Dr. Vikki Peterson, a gluten-sensitivity expert, has stated that a person should remove all suspected foods from their diet and then reintroduce them after three months. Usually, that's long enough for the body's immune system to stop misfiring. However, sometimes the sensitivity remains.

Hi everyone,2nd posting so i have me stabilisers on!!

Je suis confused as i have just (2 months ago) started reacting horribly to soy, feels like my brain is being deep fried and i cant move for an hour!! Have been gluten-free for 4yrs (diagonised) why am i reacting now and not when 1st diagonised, if i leave it out for 3mnths what is i waiting for if not for coeliac like symptoms to heal?

I have had plenty of time to heal from initial damage but seem to be aquiring more issues with food not less - hurumph.

Seem 2 b 'mucas producer' for UK if i have any dairy.

(Man hit me on the head with a huge lump of cheese 2day - i thought how dairy!!)

Gets on me wick all this goal post moving, initially thought losing gluten was complicated. HA!

[rosetapper23]

Raquiroo uk,

I'm sorry you're having food issues (yes, it's a very complex matter!)...but, hey, soy isn't good for anyone, so consider yourself lucky. However, here in the U.S. the food manufacturers have added soy to EVERYTHING. I'm talking about cans of tuna, mayonnaise, chopped garlic--you name it. It's really harmful stuff to eat, so our choices keep getting more and more limited.

However, if you must eat soy, try waiting the three months...and maybe all will be well. Good luck!