Wild Fermented Foods Health Benefits

[YoloGx]

I am finding good success in improving my general health by making wild fermented foods at home. Similarly my bf who also has extreme gluten intolerance is noticing improvement in his skin condition, mental focus and energy. And my friend with who also has celiac and likely RA is noticing the home made sauerkraut and home made goats milk yogurt is really helping him have less inflammation too.

I just found a site with information about this by Barbara Allan. Her focus is on RA, but IMHO I believe it could help most anyone, especially those who are still struggling to recover their health even though they are gluten free. And most especially for anyone who has had antibiotics, and these days, who hasn't??

The site is: Open Original Shared Link

It is her opinion that if one eats these wild fermented foods regularly it also helps curb one's appetite.

One can make these fermented foods without having to resort to dairy, in case you are allergic to it. She even suggests fermented fruit and beans as well as various nut milks and even potato or brown rice, not to mention the usual cabbage and other veggies. She says that by rotating your diet and using variety will help you be less potentially allergic.

I think this could be really exciting. Has anyone here tried making your own home made sauerkraut, kefir etc. etc.? If you have, please let us all know. And most especially if it seems to be helping you or not.

Thanks,

Bea

[gary'sgirl]

I've been making water kefir for about three months now, it's also known as homemade soda. We love it around here! Even my kids love it - I was so happy to find a probiotic drink that my kids would like.

I really think that since I started drinking this on a regular basis it is helping me - which is saying a lot, because I have tried a ton of things, but never notice much of a difference in how I feel. (I've had very little improvement in my health since going gluten free)

We have also been making fermented carrots, green beans, sauerkraut and just today started making pickled zucchini, so we will see how that one tastes. I've really noticed an improvement with my digestion when I eat these fermented foods with meals. They help better than any enzymes that I have tried.

I also soak and ferment my dry beans for two days before cooking and that really helps them to be more digestible. I've started to experiment with sourdough baking as well, and we can all tell that we feel much better eating the sourdough flat bread/pancakes that we have been making than any other baked good.

I just ordered a kombucha scoby and milk kefir grains and should get them this week! I'm excited to experiment with them!!

[YoloGx]

I've been making water kefir for about three months now, it's also known as homemade soda. We love it around here! Even my kids love it - I was so happy to find a probiotic drink that my kids would like.

I really think that since I started drinking this on a regular basis it is helping me - which is saying a lot, because I have tried a ton of things, but never notice much of a difference in how I feel. (I've had very little improvement in my health since going gluten free)

We have also been making fermented carrots, green beans, sauerkraut and just today started making pickled zucchini, so we will see how that one tastes. I've really noticed an improvement with my digestion when I eat these fermented foods with meals. They help better than any enzymes that I have tried.

I also soak and ferment my dry beans for two days before cooking and that really helps them to be more digestible. I've started to experiment with sourdough baking as well, and we can all tell that we feel much better eating the sourdough flat bread/pancakes that we have been making than any other baked good.

I just ordered a kombucha scoby and milk kefir grains and should get them this week! I'm excited to experiment with them!!

Fantastic!! Where do you get your kefir grains by the way? I am thinking of ordering some myself pronto. I am betting if have more fermented foods I will feel a little less sensitive to gluten CC.

I had gone off my sauerkraut and home made yogurt for roughly 5 days (I was waiting to get tests done by my doc.) and then got whammied with this irritation in my bladder and kidneys after I got CC'd by gluten again, 4th or 5th time in a month! I just had no more resilience anymore. I looked kind of green and yellow tinged actually.

Finally with some herbs, a no animal fat diet and yogurt am recovering an d feel better. Even went for a walk this early evening. But you do get the drift, eh?

Am looking forward to going back on to sauerkraut, but am waiting til the end of the week when I am done taking the uva ursi etc. which kills off bad bacteria in the bladder and kidneys. My understanding is that uva ursi needs a diet without sour stuff in order for it to work. I think/hope the cultured yogurt is OK. In any case I seem to be recovering meanwhile... without the need for antibiotics.

Previously I treid making sour dough and made some bread with it but it did not agree with me. However I have to admit I put a pinch of regular bread yeast into the starter when nothing happened after the first few days (no bubbles). So maybe that is what "got" me?? I am historically sensitive to yeast as well as to most vinegar... However the live whey inoculated sauerkraut is great!

How did you get the starter going?? Am thinking next time I will put in a little maple syrup in with the rice flour,,,and maybe some of the whey from the yogurt, or?? Any suggestions?

[dilettantesteph]

I make my own yogurt often. I've made some other lacto-fermented foods with the whey. I don't know any guaranteed gluten free sources for other fermentations. I've tried some wild fermentation but had some problems and haven't gotten back to it.

I'd like to hear from people with good results with wild fermentation. What do you do if it gets moldy? How do you know that it is safe to eat?

When I had them my health got worse. I think I was reacting to the salt. I have since changed salt but I haven't gotten back to wild fermentation.

[Skylark]

I've gone low-amine and I MISS my sauerkraut. :( I'm itching, the harbinger of yeast. Hopefully the ridiculously expensive VSL#3 I got will make do.

Have you all seen Open Original Shared Link ?

Kefir grains from the Open Original Shared Link though I can't have kefir either right now.

My sauerkraut was coming out great. I got it going with the Open Original Shared Link cultures and use a bit of juice from the batch before to get the next one rolling. I have a friend who tried whey and his cabbage rotted. I have done three good batches so far.

[YoloGx]

I make my own yogurt often. I've made some other lacto-fermented foods with the whey. I don't know any guaranteed gluten free sources for other fermentations. I've tried some wild fermentation but had some problems and haven't gotten back to it.

I'd like to hear from people with good results with wild fermentation. What do you do if it gets moldy? How do you know that it is safe to eat?

When I had them my health got worse. I think I was reacting to the salt. I have since changed salt but I haven't gotten back to wild fermentation.

Hi Stephanie,

I read that using Celtic Sea Salt or Himalayan salt is best. I have used both French and Mediterranean Sea Salt to good effect.

For a lot of things you don't need to use salt at all. I recall a recipe on celiac.com I should dig up from the old SCD thread for cabbage inoculated with probiotics--and I believe no salt. The idea was to drink the juice from it...

Of course IMHO nothing is for always good for everyone except maybe water and air. I just think that wild fermented foods can be a great healing resource for many of us.

Here are the url for two U-tube videos on fermenting your own foods by Barbara Allan, a pioneer on healing the gut that could be of interest -- in her case healing RA and also making one's body less virus friendly :

Meanwhile I just had to re-inoculate my yogurt. It must have been still too hot when I put the starter yogurt in last night. Sheesh! Live and learn. Fortunately I had just enough yogurt left to get it going again.

Bea

[notme]

we (grew cabbage)fermented and canned our own sauerkraut this year - it is absolutely delicious and it evens out my digestive system. it's time consuming but totally worth it just used cabbage and kosher salt - took about 6 weeks to ferment. yums....

[YoloGx]

I've gone low-amine and I MISS my sauerkraut. :( I'm itching, the harbinger of yeast. Hopefully the ridiculously expensive VSL#3 I got will make do.

Have you all seen Open Original Shared Link ?

Kefir grains from the Open Original Shared Link though I can't have kefir either right now.

My sauerkraut was coming out great. I got it going with the Open Original Shared Link cultures and use a bit of juice from the batch before to get the next one rolling. I have a friend who tried whey and his cabbage rotted. I have done three good batches so far.

Thanks for the url's Skylark! I have the wild fermentation book. Its nice to see Katz's website and the fact he is coming out with a new book soon. And definitely thanks for the Kefir grain source. I am hoping I can tolerate Kefir--I never have til now. If I can't, I figure my bf can in any case. He likes to drink milk but has had to quit. So this would be a safer way for him to drink milk. I am excited too to try it with a lot of different things. Apparently its good even with beans!

I have wondered about that issue concerning amines Skylark. I know for myself I do not tolerate cheese or wine etc.

I reacted to some sourdough bread I made though like I said I put in a pinch of regular bakers yeast when nothing happened to the mix to create sourdough after 5 days. However I was still using Bob's Red Mill grains, so that may have contributed to the problem...I was using both brown rice flour and sorghum. I'm now just using my own rice flour I make in a small electric mill we bought.

My hope is that by having more fermented foods my body will heal gradually and then I can handle more amines...as well as be healthier overall and less reactive to stray CC gluten. Hopefully this is not a misguided quest.

Meanwhile both my friend Graeme and I used both salt and live whey and some probiotics to inoculate organic cabbage and it has come out great. It takes only 1 week to 2 weeks to ferment, maybe 3 tops for the ultimate fermentation, depending on how warm it is. We then refrigerate it after that.

My thinking is that you could use your VL#3 to inoculate something like maybe one of those day and a half fermented juice drinks or maybe make some potato or rice "cheese" by using live whey and see if it helped you or not. It would be playing the edge, but why not??

[Skylark]

Aura migraines is why not. *sigh* I'm two weeks into the Failsafe elimination and while I'm not feeling generally better (fog and cognitive problems still present) I haven't had a migraine in a week now, which is an improvement. Dr. has me on riboflavin/Mg as well and I'm almost off caffeine.

It's hard to tell whether Failsafe is doing much. I have two more weeks to go but I was hoping some of my symptoms would be starting to clear by now. I had a good day yesterday but today is awful, wretched, can't think straight... It is possible the turkey I had for dinner last night wasn't fresh enough and zapped me - it smelled and tasted fine - but ye gods, I've got to eat something.

[YoloGx]

we (grew cabbage)fermented and canned our own sauerkraut this year - it is absolutely delicious and it evens out my digestive system. it's time consuming but totally worth it just used cabbage and kosher salt - took about 6 weeks to ferment. yums....

Sounds delish!

Any advice on growing ones own cabbage? I have always had trouble with moths etc. attacking them. I want to grow them this year however since its one of the few vegetables I tolerate well these days.

Bea

[notme]

last year was our first year trying to grow them - they were HUGE!! it wasn't very hard - we had a nice rainy spring last year. yes, (ugh) we had to dust them to keep the worms from eating them i was dead set against dusting them. but husband said if we didn't, the worms would eat them all gone. o my gosh, these things were like, four times the size of the cabbages you get in the grocery store! i am wanting to grow some red cabbage this year, too. oh, and we made some chow-chow (relish) last year that everybody went crazy over. we basically put it on *everything* lolz

[YoloGx]

Aura migraines is why not. *sigh* I'm two weeks into the Failsafe elimination and while I'm not feeling generally better (fog and cognitive problems still present) I haven't had a migraine in a week now, which is an improvement. Dr. has me on riboflavin/Mg as well and I'm almost off caffeine.

It's hard to tell whether Failsafe is doing much. I have two more weeks to go but I was hoping some of my symptoms would be starting to clear by now. I had a good day yesterday but today is awful, wretched, can't think straight... It is possible the turkey I had for dinner last night wasn't fresh enough and zapped me - it smelled and tasted fine - but ye gods, I've got to eat something.

I am salicylate intolerant too, so I get more than my share of migraines--so I feel for you! For me though the migraines seem to be more related nowadays to trace gluten CC. I cross my fingers its not the amines, though cheese like I said can give me a humdinger of a migraine as can chocolate, which as I learned recently is fermented... Plus I don't tolerate honey at all--though recently I learned its high in salicylates. But I feel great using the whey fermented cabbage and the yogurt, so I think I am OK with those at least.

I have found certain homeopathics to be helpful against the migraines meanwhile, both the belladonna and the pulsatilla--depending on what kind it is. I suppose it would be good to start a thread about migraines too one of these days.

There is a salicylate sensitivity forum you might be interested in. I bet from there one might find an amine support group too.

Turkey doesn't agree with me either. I think its the tryptophan. I can have it maybe once in a month and that is it. Generally I just avoid it.

Meanwhile, if all I can tolerate with these fermented foods is from the strain found in yogurt, so be it meanwhile. I figure its better than nothing. And so far I have had good results using it with the cabbage. My next try will be to use it with brown rice and then black eyed peas. I figure that will be a very yummy experiment. If I die, you can shoot Barbara Allan. Almost sounds like one of those Scotch or Irish legends, eh?

Bea

[Skylark]

Thanks, Bea. So sals can cause migraine too. I know mine are partly hormonal but they are getting much, much worse as I move into perimenopause. I'm hoping to get them better under control with dietary triggers.

I feel worse after eating miso, tomato, chicken livers, red wine, or cheese, all of which are rich in tyramine and natural MSG. They are all common migraine triggers too. Chocolate seems OK but I've eliminated it for now. I had an unexpected migraine the day after I had red wine in the evening and miso soup for breakfast, which is what prompted me to start taking the food chemicals seriously.

My trained scientific mind reels at the thought of homeopathy. Let's not even go there because my brain might explode and that would be messy.

[YoloGx]

Thanks, Bea. So sals can cause migraine too. I know mine are partly hormonal but they are getting much, much worse as I move into perimenopause. I'm hoping to get them better under control with dietary triggers.

I feel worse after eating miso, tomato, chicken livers, red wine, or cheese, all of which are rich in tyramine and natural MSG. They are all common migraine triggers too. Chocolate seems OK but I've eliminated it for now. I had an unexpected migraine the day after I had red wine in the evening and miso soup for breakfast, which is what prompted me to start taking the food chemicals seriously.

My trained scientific mind reels at the thought of homeopathy. Let's not even go there because my brain might explode and that would be messy.

Well who knows which is "luckier"--to be salicylate or amine sensitive, though some are both. I know of one gal who on top of all that is also oxalate sensitive...not to mention gluten intolerant. Her dietary choices are rather miniscule to put it mildly.

I admit to being a little pig headed at times, and don't even want to go there concerning the amines. It would be a "headache"in itself given how I have to make everything from scratch as it is. To have to refrigerate everything almost immediately would be difficult to put it mildly, though I do know it can be done.

Meanwhile I am trying to"lead" my body this other direction in hopes such measures are not necessary. Thus in part my enthusiasm for these fermented foods. Is this nuts or what? But so far it seems to be working for me.

And well, to be honest, having been raised by two scientists, I had to invert my head a few times and roll over and do the splits to get it around the concept of homeopathics too. However, I was at a loss since most medical remedies don't work for me given how sensitive I am and now with the salicylate problem, it has made common use of herbs difficult at best. Funny thing is that my very sensitivity probably makes me a better candidate for homeopathics than most--now that I can tolerate a small bit of lactose that is.

[gary'sgirl]

Fantastic!! Where do you get your kefir grains by the way? I am thinking of ordering some myself pronto. I am betting if have more fermented foods I will feel a little less sensitive to gluten CC.

I had gone off my sauerkraut and home made yogurt for roughly 5 days (I was waiting to get tests done by my doc.) and then got whammied with this irritation in my bladder and kidneys after I got CC'd by gluten again, 4th or 5th time in a month! I just had no more resilience anymore. I looked kind of green and yellow tinged actually.

Finally with some herbs, a no animal fat diet and yogurt am recovering an d feel better. Even went for a walk this early evening. But you do get the drift, eh?

Am looking forward to going back on to sauerkraut, but am waiting til the end of the week when I am done taking the uva ursi etc. which kills off bad bacteria in the bladder and kidneys. My understanding is that uva ursi needs a diet without sour stuff in order for it to work. I think/hope the cultured yogurt is OK. In any case I seem to be recovering meanwhile... without the need for antibiotics.

Previously I treid making sour dough and made some bread with it but it did not agree with me. However I have to admit I put a pinch of regular bread yeast into the starter when nothing happened after the first few days (no bubbles). So maybe that is what "got" me?? I am historically sensitive to yeast as well as to most vinegar... However the live whey inoculated sauerkraut is great!

How did you get the starter going?? Am thinking next time I will put in a little maple syrup in with the rice flour,,,and maybe some of the whey from the yogurt, or?? Any suggestions?

The kombucha and milk kefir that I just order was from this site: Open Original Shared Link. I haven't tried anything else from this site, but from looking around it seemed like a good place to order organic cultures that were not dehydrated. I tried some of the dehydrated cultures from Cultures for Health, but they are a lot harder to get going than live cultures.

I ordered my water kefir grains from this site: Open Original Shared Link. They have a great reputation and I am really happy with the grains they have been really healthy and multiplying like crazy!

I use some of the water kefir to get my sourdough starter going. It works really well, and you can restart it anytime you want. I got the recipe from this site: Open Original Shared Link. It's the free download for the starter. She gives you the recipe for the pancakes too.

I found this other site for making gluten free sourdough bread: Open Original Shared Link, and I used the starter from the other site, but this lady has a way to make the starter using a cabbage leaf, and it sounds like a lot of people have had really good results with it. I couldn't use all the flours that she suggested and mine turned out a bit more dense than I would have liked, when I tried the recipe, but it tasted good.

Hopefully all this info will give you some ideas. I, like you really think that the fermented foods will help me recover and hopefully be less sensitive to CC.

[YoloGx]

last year was our first year trying to grow them - they were HUGE!! it wasn't very hard - we had a nice rainy spring last year. yes, (ugh) we had to dust them to keep the worms from eating them i was dead set against dusting them. but husband said if we didn't, the worms would eat them all gone. o my gosh, these things were like, four times the size of the cabbages you get in the grocery store! i am wanting to grow some red cabbage this year, too. oh, and we made some chow-chow (relish) last year that everybody went crazy over. we basically put it on *everything* lolz

Sounds like you had a lovely, tasty crop!

I would like to find a way to grow them organically if at all possible however given all my sensitivities to everything. We do get organic cabbages at WH, so there must be a way.... When/if I learn how, I will pass it on.

[YoloGx]

The kombucha and milk kefir that I just order was from this site: Open Original Shared Link. I haven't tried anything else from this site, but from looking around it seemed like a good place to order organic cultures that were not dehydrated. I tried some of the dehydrated cultures from Cultures for Health, but they are a lot harder to get going than live cultures.

I ordered my water kefir grains from this site: Open Original Shared Link. They have a great reputation and I am really happy with the grains they have been really healthy and multiplying like crazy!

I use some of the water kefir to get my sourdough starter going. It works really well, and you can restart it anytime you want. I got the recipe from this site: Open Original Shared Link. It's the free download for the starter. She gives you the recipe for the pancakes too.

I found this other site for making gluten free sourdough bread: Open Original Shared Link, and I used the starter from the other site, but this lady has a way to make the starter using a cabbage leaf, and it sounds like a lot of people have had really good results with it. I couldn't use all the flours that she suggested and mine turned out a bit more dense than I would have liked, when I tried the recipe, but it tasted good.

Hopefully all this info will give you some ideas. I, like you really think that the fermented foods will help me recover and hopefully be less sensitive to CC.

Thank you for such an in-depth answer to my question concerning where to buy grains etc. plus about the sourdough.

Stupid question, I am assuming all these sources offer completely gluten-free grains etc., yay or nay? I saw that the sourdough starter was, but wasn't sure of the rest.

[gary'sgirl]

Thank you for such an in-depth answer to my question concerning where to buy grains etc. plus about the sourdough.

Stupid question, I am assuming all these sources offer completely gluten-free grains etc., yay or nay? I saw that the sourdough starter was, but wasn't sure of the rest.

I read a lot about both of the suppliers practices and what they use to grow their cultures and felt pretty confident that they are safe. I didn't have a problem with the water kefir, and I, like you are very sensitive to the smallest amounts of gluten CC. But I can't say for sure that we are on the same level of sensitivity, so if you feel it could be a problem, you might want to call and talk to the suppliers.

I know that the cultures have to be handled carefully to keep them healthy, and as far as the milk kefir supplier goes they state that they only grow their grains in organic, grass fed, raw milk that is fresh from the farm. They also only use only organic sugar and loose leaf tea (organic and non-flavored) for their kombucha.

The suppliers for the Water Kefir only use organic ingredients also.

The only ingredient they use, I believe, are whole sugar, and possibly organic dried fruit with no additives and organic unsulfured molasses.

Hope that helps a little. Oh, and I thought I would mention that the kombucha and Milk Kefir supplier I listed, also sells Water Kefir.

Out of curiosity - what cultures are you thinking of getting?

[YoloGx]

I read a lot about both of the suppliers practices and what they use to grow their cultures and felt pretty confident that they are safe. I didn't have a problem with the water kefir, and I, like you are very sensitive to the smallest amounts of gluten CC. But I can't say for sure that we are on the same level of sensitivity, so if you feel it could be a problem, you might want to call and talk to the suppliers.

I know that the cultures have to be handled carefully to keep them healthy, and as far as the milk kefir supplier goes they state that they only grow their grains in organic, grass fed, raw milk that is fresh from the farm. They also only use only organic sugar and loose leaf tea (organic and non-flavored) for their kombucha.

The suppliers for the Water Kefir only use organic ingredients also.

The only ingredient they use, I believe, are whole sugar, and possibly organic dried fruit with no additives and organic unsulfured molasses.

Hope that helps a little. Oh, and I thought I would mention that the kombucha and Milk Kefir supplier I listed, also sells Water Kefir.

Out of curiosity - what cultures are you thinking of getting?

I was thinking about talking to the suppliers just because--though its a good recommendation that you have been using them safely too. Some places get grains back from friends and customers and I worry about likely CC.

I am interested in both the water Kefir and the milk Kefir. I am going at thisa little blind, since I haven't really even used either. However as said, even if it ends up not agreeing with me, I figure it will be great for my boyfriend and perhaps for a friend of ours as well as some other acquaintances.

[YoloGx]

Here's some good easy to follow instructions on how to make one's own sauerkraut. I add in some fresh live whey from my yogurt or some probiotics to hasten the process as well as make sure it ferments the way I want it to. However most people don't bother. Either way it should end up delicious:

Open Original Shared Link

[YoloGx]

The following url is from pecanbread-the scd site. A few years back I followed the scd and therein started making and using 24 hour fermented yogurt. This post referrs to that plus gives a recipe or two on how to make salt free fermented cabbage either plain chopped or the juice. I thought some of you might be interested:

Open Original Shared Link

[gary'sgirl]

The following url is from pecanbread-the scd site. A few years back I followed the scd and therein started making and using 24 hour fermented yogurt. This post referrs to that plus gives a recipe or two on how to make salt free fermented cabbage either plain chopped or the juice. I thought some of you might be interested:

Open Original Shared Link

Did you feel better after doing the SCD diet? I was on the SCD for a year and I did not improve. I've been trying to figure out what to try next, which is why I am doing all of the fermenting.

But I'm interested to hear if it worked for you.

[YoloGx]

Did you feel better after doing the SCD diet? I was on the SCD for a year and I did not improve. I've been trying to figure out what to try next, which is why I am doing all of the fermenting.

But I'm interested to hear if it worked for you.

Well perhaps we aren't so different. The SCD did not work for me either. I actually got worse in that sleeping became impossible and my itching got worse. Turns out I have salicylate intolerance, and all that zucchini, sunflower seeds etc. was the worst. I now know why honey is so bad--too many salicylates for me.

Ironically now it seems I need to be on a low animal fat diet because my liver and gall bladder couldn't handle all the fat from the meat I had doing the SCD--and then later continued with the meat at still relatively high levels (plus the addition of eggs--I could not tolerate before) with my new low salicylate diet. Even though I always have eaten lots of veggies despite these new limitations, the animal fat in the meat was still too much for me given the poor stressed state of my villi--being overwhelmed it seems by eating fatty foods in whatever guise since my villi seem to be way flattened from years and years not knowing I was celiac.

I actually do better with brown rice in my diet rather than not. And now due to stress in the liver and gb I am eating a lacto vegetarian die--though no nuts, regular milk or cheese etc. and very little egg.

Fortunately now I can handle eating a few easy to digest and well soaked and cooked beans (azuki and black eyed peas) so I have at least some protein in my diet. I can have some oily type fish too, but don't want to have too much given how much heavy metal etc. it has in general. I still have a few vegetables I can still eat--though many I can't due to medium to high salicylates.

I am positively loving the fact I can now eat as many peeled golden delicious apples and peeled ripe pears as I want (well nearly). Previously I could not tolerate eating any fruit at all for years.

So I try to make my food as interesting and varied as I can within its considerable limits. And I am slowly improving.

I am meanwhile figuring out how to make things with brown rice flour we mill ourselves. I love this treat I have that uses maple syrup (not much but enough to taste), brown rice flour and cooked brown rice, saff. oil (I don't tolerate others due to the high salicylate content of almost all oils), and either some pureed or cooked yam or acorn squash, and peeled chopped ripe pear and peeled chopped golden delicious apple with a little yogurt thrown in and one or two eggs. Yum--especially with some yogurt on top! It lasts for a week for the two of us. My bf actually prefers it to his chocolate chip cookies, but then part of that is due to the fact the cookies make him feel a little off.

So its been a slow climb. In the midst of it all while I was on SCD for 10 months I was stressed due to work and had such a terrible rash in my ears and nethers that I went to the Emergency Clinic, fearing I had an infection deep in my ears. They gave me this awful antibiotic that nearly killed me. After a week of taking it, I had shooting D every half hour. After that I ate 24 hour yogurt with a vengeance, made tons of olive leaf tea to kill whatever infection I figured I had, and continued on the SCD for another year.

But as implied, I was limping. Of course the "itchy b%$@#ies"were still there, worse than ever. I even got plantar warts. Of course the salicylate stuff I put on it just made it worse. It went entirely away when I taped garlic to it.. But the insomnia began to rage--especially when i put in a wonderful garden at my boyfriend's house with lots and lots of tomatoes and peppers and cucumbers and basil/oregano/thyme etc. and zucchinis and red chard and kale etc.

Sleep was something I could dream about while awake. Jerk jerk myoclonus big time ad infinitum compounded by the dreadful itchy b%$@#ies made actually worse. I was otherwise happy, but man o man.

Now fortunately the itchies have greatly reduced, as has the insomnia,/twitching but not completely. Which is why I am enthusiastic about these soured live foods. I figure they will either help me or be way too much--if so, I will have to start seriously going after the amine connection which probably would mean eating a lot less of these wonderful fermented foods.. I am hoping by taking a gradual careful approach however, I can lead my body to being able to handle and then love at least some of these things.

Right now though I think the Universe is having a big joke on me with this headache. Though truth be told its starting to lift so maybe I can get to bed soon anyway and have a good sleep.

But yes tonight I am up late. I made the mistake of trying to save a large batch of yogurt. And ended up eating some of it early this afternoon. The milk was too hot the previous night and for once the culture thus did not take. The next morning I put in fresh culture into the warm milk. It came out weird (as in curdled) but I still ate some of it this afternoon. It tasted fine, but what a mistake! I have a terrible headache as a result. Am going to have to pour it all out and start over...

More of a response than you bargained for, eh? I think despite all this trouble I have experienced trying to get well, my Leo peeks out now and then...

[Skylark]

Did you feel better after doing the SCD diet? I was on the SCD for a year and I did not improve. I've been trying to figure out what to try next, which is why I am doing all of the fermenting.

But I'm interested to hear if it worked for you.

I have some SCD perspective too, though I was on full GAPS. I was on it a few months but all the amines from bone broth and fermented food seem to be giving me trouble. I did eat a little rice. Rice a couple times a week seems optimal.

I'm trying Failsafe elimination diet now, to see if the issue is food chemicals. The diet is pretty restricted and I'm eating some rice and gluten-free breads. I'm tired, my asthma is back, I have dark circles under my eyes, and I'm constipated. There is something really bad for me with the starches and grains and I can't wait to challenge salicylates in a week and a half so I have enough foods to go back to a low-starch diet. (I am suspecting my problems are amines, not salicylates.) The fats are great for me because I don't get low blood sugar eating that way.

[YoloGx]

I have some SCD perspective too, though I was on full GAPS. I was on it a few months but all the amines from bone broth and fermented food seem to be giving me trouble. I did eat a little rice. Rice a couple times a week seems optimal.

I'm trying Failsafe elimination diet now, to see if the issue is food chemicals. The diet is pretty restricted and I'm eating some rice and gluten-free breads. I'm tired, my asthma is back, I have dark circles under my eyes, and I'm constipated. There is something really bad for me with the starches and grains and I can't wait to challenge salicylates in a week and a half so I have enough foods to go back to a low-starch diet. (I am suspecting my problems are amines, not salicylates.) The fats are great for me because I don't get low blood sugar eating that way.

Hi Skylark. Our bodies seem to be so very particular. The deal is to figure out what that particularity is. One size does not fit all. Maybe just going off the bone broth and fermented foods as well as most of the grains and you will feel fine. Good luck in any case with figuring out the meanie here.

I hope too your migraine went away. Mine is still hanging out, but not so bad as last night. I really do think the yogurt I made this last time went off,which then triggered the migraine, especially after I had some sauerkraut....

I hope meanwhile I am not terribly amine sensitive, however I do think its possible I am at least partly that way. Often people with salicylate sensitivity are also amine sensitive. If I end up having to give up sauerkraut and miso, I won't be happy about it, however I can live with it if necessary. I am jazzed about the taste, however these frequent migraines I've had recently are not something I want to continue to live with... It is just possible that the sauerkraut and not CC to gluten has triggered a bunch of these headaches. I don't want to face that possibility, however if it is the case I will face it nevertheless. For now I am staying off the miso and sauerkraut and see what happens next week when I reintroduce them.

And if it turns out that I am really amine sensitive, its better to know it than not. My goal is to feel better and be less restrictive socially for one thing. Going around being seemingly reactive to everything just from my environment is not my idea of how I want to be. So this could possibly be a gift in disguise.

So thank you for your input here. It gives me some real food for thought (lol!).